All I see is content nerfs.

[Taruranto]

Is it really unreasonable to expect extreme mode boss fights to be extremely hard?

These extremes are too extreme, eh. Honestly, I remember when I first saw a video of Titan X, I immediately though "The OF is going to bitch a lot they can't beat this optional content for hardcore and more skilled players". X)

Because, you see, modern mmorpg-players start with the mindset that everything in game belongs to them and should be obtainable even if they lack the skill, as opposite of being earned thought hard work.

There is no concept of "I must work hard and smack down this wall", but it's more like "this wall shouldn't be here in the first place!!".

[Zaels]

You make it sound as if catering to both playerbases is mutually exclusive. There's really no part of the main storyline that requires you to complete extreme mode primals. Casual players can completely skip them and obtain comparable ilevel90 gear from myth tomes.

It's honestly a rather sad thing if the majority of players are really unhappy that optional content designed to be challenging and difficult is actually challenging and difficult.

[synaesthetic]

You make it sound as if catering to both playerbases is mutually exclusive. There's really no part of the storyline that requires you to complete extreme mode primals. Casual players can completely skip them and obtain comparable ilevel90 gear from myth tomes.

I would agree with you on this except for one thing: they're not adding enough content for this to work. There's not enough content in FFXIV to just say "oh, this content isn't designed for us, let's do this other stuff." What other stuff is there to do?

Gear is completely irrelevant. Seriously, at this point the only reason I try to get gear is how it looks. Gear is useless without something to use it on, and the less skilled players who don't have the same determination as more dedicated players don't really have anything to do. Labyrinth of the Ancients is way too easy, but for most people Coil and Extreme primals are way too hard. There's really no middle ground here (except maybe Ultima HM, which is probably the single most well-designed piece of content added in 2.1).

So right now yes, it is mutually exclusive, and Square-Enix would be far better suited financially to cater more toward the far more numerous part of their playerbase. That's what they're doing. Now, I would agree with you if they would be adding something meaningful for the "mid-tier" players to sink their teeth into, while the "high-tier" players work on Coil. Except they aren't. CT is a joke.

[Zaels]

I would agree with you on this except for one thing: they're not adding enough content for this to work. There's not enough content in FFXIV to just say "oh, this content isn't designed for us, let's do this other stuff." What other stuff is there to do?

Aside from the fact that more content is being added every major patch, right now there's actually a rather balanced number of level 50+ content that casual players can do, that gives them full access to obtaining average item level 89 (90 if they can clear titan HM).

The highest itemlevel a hardcore player can obtain right now is 90, even with the ilevel95 allagan weapon. That's really not too far off from the "ceiling" that casual players are limited to according to this list.

Stuff Casual Players should be able to do fine:
Praetorium
Castrum Meridianum
Wanderer's Palace
Amdapor Keep
Crystal Tower
Ifrit (HM)
Copperbell Mines (HM)
Haukke Manor (HM)
Thornmarch
Binding Coil Turn 2 (Enrage Strat)

A bit more difficult but not extremely difficult:
Pharos Sirius
Garuda (HM)
Titan (HM)

Catered towards Hardcore players: (note that none of these are part of the main story at all)
Garuda (XM)
Ifrit (XM)
Titan (XM)
Ultima Weapon (HM)
Binding Coil Turns 1-5 (except for 2)

[Memoriae]

I can understand the nerf to coil and most things that are required for story progression, but when they nerf things things that are not needed for story progression, such as pharos Sirius, then its kinda pointless, though I guess I will see more people doing it. There isn't a need to nerf optional dungeons(which most optional fights/dungeons in game are usually harder than required story content), I mean pharos was the closest thing you could have to a difficult light party dungeon, which if you worked the mechanics properly, it was easy.

but now with coil lockout free and nerf batted, a good question was brought up.

What is going to happen to CT? why would people go through the effort to gather the people when they can just skip CT and just spam coil for gear, since CT rewards are weaker compared to Allag gear (depends on what piece). so will we see no one queing for CT anymore? or just people running for the first time so they can get through the quest.

[synaesthetic]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. There's nothing currently in the game for a "mid-tier" player to spend the entire duration of the tier on. CT doesn't count because you beat it in an hour and then it's just gear-farming time.

What's needed is something cohesive, centralized and all strung together, just like Coil, but tuned for mid-tier players, with its own associated storyline, just like Coil. If you had that, then maybe I would agree about leaving Coil 1-5 alone.

However, 2.2 shows us that Square-Enix is pulling an Apple. When the new iPhone/Coil comes out, the old iPhone/Coil becomes the "budget" model. It's not a bad model for a company that doesn't produce a wide variety of products, and SE doesn't produce a wide variety of content.

[AjoraOak]

LOL, turn 1/4 are catering to the hardcore? I mean c'mon, not even garuda or ifrit extreme really are hard... especially as ranged dps.

[synaesthetic]

LOL, turn 1/4 are catering to the hardcore? I mean c'mon, not even garuda or ifrit extreme really are hard... especially as ranged dps.

This is what's wrong with MMO players. You don't even view people who are "lesser" than you as human and worth consideration.

There are lots and lots of people who aren't good enough skillwise to clear Coil. There are lots of people who can't clear Titan HM. These people exist. Calling them bad names and making fun of them will not help anything, because if they leave, Square-Enix loses money and then the difficult content you enjoy will be reduced in the future.

You say gear is irrelevant. The only reason to do extreme mode primals is for gear. (and the black unicorn)

The boss, stage, etc. look exactly like the hard/normal versions of the primals. Why does it matter that extreme mode primals are "too hard for most people"?

I didn't say anything about extreme primals. I was talking about Coil. Besides, none of the EX primals are being nerfed, so what's the problem? EX primals are fine (with the exception of Titan EX being nigh-impossible for those with bad internet connections). I never said they should be nerfed.

Hard Mode primals, Thornmarch and Ultima HM exist as standalone bosses for the mid-tier folks, and again SE is using the Apple strategy. Now that Titan EX is out, Titan HM drops i80 weapons and is a really good goal for mid-tier players to go after, and now the relic quest is a mid-tier thing rather than a high-tier thing, simply because the average gear level has gone up and now people can clear the HMs more easily.

[Zaels]

You say gear is irrelevant. The only reason to do extreme mode primals is for gear. (and the black unicorn)

The boss, stage, etc. look exactly like the hard/normal versions of the primals. Why does it matter that extreme mode primals are "too hard for most people"?

[am0n]

This is what's wrong with MMO players. You don't even view people who are "lesser" than you as human and worth consideration.

There are lots and lots of people who aren't good enough skillwise to clear Coil. There are lots of people who can't clear Titan HM. These people exist. Calling them bad names and making fun of them will not help anything, because if they leave, Square-Enix loses money and then the difficult content you enjoy will be reduced in the future.

You are arguing with brick walls here. They don't seem to comprehend the idea that the only reason SE can afford to develop content for the top tier is because the rest of the gamers (and it's a large number) continue to pay a monthly sub to allow them to develop it.

synaesthetic is completely correct; there isn't enough content yet to adequately cater to everyone. Over time, this will change. Part of that change will be by taking older content, which once was tuned to be more difficult and making it a smidgen easier. Once T6-T9 is released, T1-T5 can be made a bit easier to cater to a mid-tier of player and T6-T9 can be made very difficult again. Once T10-T13 is released, you'd have even more leeway to develop varying difficulty in the tiers and really provide some punishing content. Once there is enough content to keep everyone busy. While the content is sparse, though, they have and should continue to cater to the majority and not the minority. Contrary to what you may think, you pay the same thing the rest of us do. And there is a whole hell of a lot more of us than you.