Issues In Vote kick/Abandon/Commendations

[Zedine]

First of all I like all of these features but I have noticed some small problems. Mainly when it comes to premade groups.

First, player Commendations. I notice that premade groups cannot vote. And that's OK to prevent them from voting on their friends, but they cannot even vote for the random players. If you go into an 8 man DF and get 1 random and he is the best one great player helped out, no one can give him a commendation.


Second Kick for "Insert Reason". I was doing CT when one member of our group started saying racial slurs. I queued with some friends and I guess my friend tried to vote kick him for harassment which just made matters worse. This unnamed player proceeded to tell us he queued with his friends that they are 5 players and that they wont kick him, they proceeded to continue their harassment and there was nothing to do besides blacklist. It seems that if you have the majority in any dungeon you can never be kicked regardless of what you do.

Third, Vote abandon. There needs to be reasons for this, like family emergency or out of time or something. I was doing AK and there was nothing wrong, my team was not talking at all and after the 1st boss they all just vote abandoned. I'm not sure if it was because the run was not a speed run or what, the issue is nothing was said and they were a 3 man premade and just vote abandoned.

Their needs to be some sort of check for premades.
A few suggestions or "fixes" I would have are as follows.

For commendations, allow premade groups to give commendations to people they did not queue with, that way those 4 , 2 man duo queues can all give commendations. Yet this way they can never commend their friends they queue with.

For vote kick, make the votes of players queued together count less, maybe 1/2 or 1/3rd than solo players. This will prevent a 3 man premade to kick 1 person every time, and also it will prevent the other players from defending their friend when they know their friend was in the wrong. I haven't worked out the numbers on this, but there needs to be something to remove the full power of a premade group that can vote kick or save from vote kick. (they can be reported for false vote kick but there is no way to report defending a harassing player)

For vote abandon there needs to be a penalty for people abusing it, it also needs to have reasons. For an MMo that are meant to be social it really bothered me to see a vote abandon on something where no one died and there was 0 issues. Nothing was discussed and the premade just left. Reasons should be in the vote abandon, for example, Not enough time to complete, lacking damage (for those dps race fights like titan heart), lack of team work, and lack of communication. Something like so.

These are just some ideas. If you guys have any suggestions or feedback let me know. I'm somewhat just venting as well for my most recent encounters.

[Dotsusama]

1) Commendations could be abused. A party of 3/4 or 7/8 queue up with a low population language option, and one friend queue up solo. That group gives all commendations on the last player even if they're AFK. My extreme example takes a lot of setup and some luck, but it highlights a potential exploit.

2) This suggestion feels unfair. If you were to vote on lunch options, and 3 friends voted for Thai and 2 new interns in the office voted Pizza, Pizza should not win just because the interns were new. Again, a lack of balance.

3) This sounds like an instance of a group of friends or maybe a premade from one server queuing up and they have the understanding that they were just there for the first boss to farm. It is just poor communication on their part. Even if they select a reason for it, it would have likely been arbitrary and you would have lost that vote anyhow. So for this one, I'm saying you have a good idea, and also I'm sorry it happened to you. :x

[Zedine]

for your 1st response, Well the thing is that people can queue solo all for same dungeon at same time and do it, so this wouldn't stop or prevent that. It already happens.

Second, the thing is using your example, the last intern is allergic and you are now forcing him to eat Thai food. The way I see it is, you have a 3 man party they will always win regardles of the vote. Forcing people to leave. Then if it came down to a 4 man premade in 8 player content they can never be dismissed as you need to have over 50% so you even if 4 of you agreed the 4 man premade will always be protected. Sure it can lead to abuse, but i think if the 4 people are random it should have more weight than a 4 man premade. since the odds of 4 random players to try and "troll" kick someone is far less likely than 4 friends kicking someone because they can.


and yeah for the third one i would just like there to be a notification telling people that abandoning a duty without proper reason can lead to negative repercussions.

[Dotsusama]

people can queue solo all for same dungeon at same time and do it, so this wouldn't stop or prevent that. It already happens.

No, but that method requires much more precision and luck. Or lots of dropped groups and waiting around until they ARE matched up.

the last intern is allergic and you are now forcing him to eat Thai food.

I don't want to get sidetracked by details, and perhaps my analogy was too open to interpretation, but in reality someone with a food allergy should be bringing their own lunches in these situations, or order something from the menu that they would not be allergic to. This does not apply to forming groups.

Sure it can lead to abuse, but i think if the 4 people are random it should have more weight than a 4 man premade.

Yes, it can lead to abuse, and yes also the pre-made group members kicking out randoms is a form of abuse, but the thing about the pre-mades is that if they do this once they are liable to do it more than once. I would like to think that the customer service department will start to see patterns in the players that initiate votes, and who all is with them, and if certain player names come up (especially if they are reported by those offended) then they will have action taken against them.

[Zedine]

No, but that method requires much more precision and luck. Or lots of dropped groups and waiting around until they ARE matched up.

It really doesn't I can and have done the following with my friends to see if I could, I queued in Solo queue Guildhest and they all queued together we all got in. Then we all queued for copperbell mines hard and pharos sirius hard and we all got in. Everytime any of them need something we just ask each other hey join X dungeon in progress we are 2/3 and bam they get in. Its easy.

I don't want to get sidetracked by details, and perhaps my analogy was too open to interpretation, but in reality someone with a food allergy should be bringing their own lunches in these situations, or order something from the menu that they would not be allergic to. This does not apply to forming groups.

And what I am trying to say as we are getting off topic with lunches, is that if someone is harassing and you cannot kick him, then you are being forced to play with them unless you leave and you suffer a penalty if he is being protected by his team mates.

Yes, it can lead to abuse, and yes also the pre-made group members kicking out randoms is a form of abuse, but the thing about the pre-mades is that if they do this once they are liable to do it more than once. I would like to think that the customer service department will start to see patterns in the players that initiate votes, and who all is with them, and if certain player names come up (especially if they are reported by those offended) then they will have action taken against them.

And as far as the abuse is I hope so the problem is you can get kicked before you know what hit you, and then you dont know who kicked you who initiated who voted yes who voted no, and even if you had their name they can be on multiple servers what if you report the wrong one. There are several issues at hand here. But at least I am trying to come up with some ideas besides saying "nope"

[Dotsusama]

All right, I concede that there are multiple methods that one could use to get additional commendations, but your idea to be able to give those additional points away to randoms is just another way to do so. It doesn't close any loopholes.

RE: being kicked by permas, sadly this is just a detriment to the system being the way it is, and unless you remove the penalty for leaving a duty early (which punishes people who leave groups for any little reason) then there is no way around this. Again, giving certain players more weight to their votes just skews things unfairly and causes other issues.

Besides, do you really want to stay in a duty where you know a large chunk of them want to kick you out? I wouldn't. With that kind of toxic environment, I would be better off finding another group, and the cooldown from the debuff would give me some time to take a breath, get some fresh air, make a sandwich, and relax so I'm not so stressed going into the next group.

[Grizzlebeard]

1) Commendations could be abused.

The system is a joke anyway, it's not like it's currently not being abused. I see people on gold mounts already who simply spammed low level guildhests on tank/healer and creamed 1-3 Comms a pop. I'm sat at 96 or so right now, 40 or so of which I gained as a DD, the rest while I've been levelling healer.

[Dotsusama]

The system is a joke anyway, it's not like it's currently not being abused. I see people on gold mounts already who simply spammed low level guildhests on tank/healer and creamed 1-3 Comms a pop.

The only way to curb that would be to put some kind of arbitrary limit on gains for commendations. Like... no more than 10 per hour, or 100 per week, or something like that.

[Grailer]

I always vote yes when someone wants to abandon a Primal Extreme , reason being is that we need 100% commitment to win usually . ( sometimes 100% is even enough ) But when someone doesn't want to be there then that is a problem .