WAR > PLD

[zakalw3]

Telling me "i'm doing it wrong" is pretty retarded considering the cookie cutter nature of this game.

If you're keeping up your rotations efficiently, the only way a warrior is going to peel aggro from you easily is if they out gear you, otherwise it's pretty much neck and neck.

You either didn't notice the WAR's gear or you wee not being efficient with you rotations.

[whiskeybravo]

Telling me "i'm doing it wrong" is pretty retarded considering the cookie cutter nature of this game.

You shouldn't really be using Provoke at all unless you lose aggro entirely. It does not build any hate, it just puts you +1 enmity above the leader which is nothing if you are the leader, and not much at all if you aren't.

I'm Warrior main but concept is the same for ST pulls: Use Fight or Flight>Shield Lob>RoH Combo. Flash isn't going to build a ton of hate, so it's almost wasting a GCD compared to a War who will not be using it. It's probably better to use Flash after RoH combo, but mainly use it for the damage mitigation not ST threat.

[BlackRosesXIV]

I normally use provoke initially because there is always at least one or two impatient DPS who throw out a nuke before aggro has been well established. When tanking a single mob that doesn't involve switching between tanks, I shouldn't have to use provoke at all, which is why I dont mind tossing it out initially and waiting for its CD. Also, IIRC Provoke is not on the same GCD as the rest of my abilities. So it generally just buys me a few seconds to get my first RoH combo off without losing aggro immediately.

[Kyana]

Clearly you've never played WAR. All the time I have to deal with PLD's spamming their one combo ripping threat off me when I MT because I'm trying to maintain my buffs/debuffs. It goes both ways, it's not so much a "This job vs that job" argument as a bad tanks unable to maintain their threat. Honestly when I OT I never rip threat off because I just use my other 2 combos to help DPS/debuff the enemy.

Pretty much this.

If not maintanking I could spam hate combo all day long and would grab aggro for sure. Even easier if I keep Defiance or Shield Oath up.
Or, I could deactivate Defiance or switch to Sword Oath and help debuffing the mob or cast SS on the MT or other important or weakened party members.

Now, if I grab aggro without Defiance or Shield Oath and without spamming hate combo or other hate generating abilities, then the other tank is bad.

[whiskeybravo]

I normally use provoke initially because there is always at least one or two impatient DPS who throw out a nuke before aggro has been well established. When tanking a single mob that doesn't involve switching between tanks, I shouldn't have to use provoke at all, which is why I dont mind tossing it out initially and waiting for its CD. Also, IIRC Provoke is not on the same GCD as the rest of my abilities. So it generally just buys me a few seconds to get my first RoH combo off without losing aggro immediately.

Those are not valid points for using Provoke lol. It's +1 enmity, which isn't building any sort of hate whatsoever. Literally sneezing on the mob is going to build more enmity than Provoke (it's intended use is solely stealing hate back if you lose it, and tank swaps obviously)

[BlackRosesXIV]

Those are not valid points for using Provoke lol. It's +1 enmity, which isn't building any sort of hate whatsoever. Literally sneezing on the mob is going to build more enmity than Provoke (it's intended use is solely stealing hate back if you lose it, and tank swaps obviously)

Ok, i realize the behavior of Provoke in XIV is much different than was in XI. But to make sure I understand...

Me: Shield Lob > <t>
BLM: Fire III <t> (now has aggro)
Me: Provoke <t> (now I have aggro)

This is not accurate? Again I use provoke when I raid because there is always some noob prematurely nuking... Not routinely, for instance, when I do coil with my static...

[zakalw3]

Ok, i realize the behavior of Provoke in XIV is much different than was in XI. But to make sure I understand...

Me: Shield Lob > <t>
BLM: Fire III <t> (now has aggro)
Me: Provoke <t> (now I have aggro)

This is not accurate? Again I use provoke when I raid because there is always some noob prematurely nuking... Not routinely, for instance, when I do coil with my static...

This is accurate sometimes yes, and it's fine. You use provoke as you need to to regain control. That's what it's there for.

Point still stands: there's nothing I can do that you cannot, and I don't have this issue, so unless you're being outgeared it's something to do with the efficiency of your rotation.

[Traek]

Silly topic is silly. The revisions to War in 2.1 were well done, there is no PLD > WAR or War > PLD these days, it's PLD + WAR. It sounds like you are doing things wrong overall, and should have made a constructive thread asking for help on rotation, or opinions on why you were losing threat. So if you are wondering why people are being negative, it is from the start your negative and wrong impression implied at the start of the thread.

Others have said it, but PLD & WAR doing rotations correctly are essentially neck and neck. You were out geared, or the WAR was dumb, either one is no reason to start this thread.

As far as your rotation, ST boss pull should be: FoF > Shield Lob > Spirits Within > Fast Blade > CoS > Savage > Halone > Halone combos. Flash should never be in your ST rotation except to blind for big hits on bosses applicable (not a lot these days). One big reason a Warrior will be taking hate on you (especially well geared) is because of that Flash at the start. PLD hate is back loaded into Halone, if you are starting your main generating combo late, while the WAR starts his early on you, then you'll be playing catch up. If you aren't using FoF at the start, and the WAR is using Zerk + Unchained.. well ya WAR wanted to MT, most likely dumb if its established you are the MT. I've not seen a DD take hate off pulls with the skill order I listed above, granted if DD went balls out full dumb dumb it might be possible, but that is not a common occurrence (I haven't seen it post 2.1 once).

[BlackRosesXIV]

One big reason a Warrior will be taking hate on you (especially well geared) is because of that Flash at the start. PLD hate is back loaded into Halone, if you are starting your main generating combo late, while the WAR starts his early on you, then you'll be playing catch up.

I think this is exactly what's happening here. Thanks for helping me see that. I'm going to adjust my rotation accordingly and test. Thanks to the handful who contributed some useful information to this thread.

I understand that the tone of the original post was out-of-line. My apologies, but it was getting extremely frustrating. Thanks for reading

[Braxton]

as PLD and WAR I've never had hate stripped from me at the start of a fight, like ever. Only time I use voke is during 'ruda ex spiny plume & tank swaps