WAR > PLD

[PiedPiper]

Tenchar limit

[Bayman]

This is especially annoying in raids where if a WAR wants to be MT, then by god, he will be MT, because there is absolutely nothing any PLD can do to gain it back.

Who cares? A tank has threat. Sounds more like a personal thing than a game thing. Now if your supposed to be swapping and it isnt happen... then its a fail on the tank TEAM in the raid.

[PiedPiper]

Can't edit on mobile to cheat limit

Unchained and fight or flight are directly balanced against each other, war has a slight edge with berserk but it's small and as others have said they cant / shouldn't just spam butcher's block.

Also, warrior doesn't have more hp than paladin. At least not much (a few vit off soul crystal is about it.) both classes have the same effective hp modifier (+25%).

Paladin has a effective healing advantage (+25% vs defiance +20%, because of 20% DR that means every point of healing on a pld restores 1.25 points of damage vs 1.20 on a war).

Paladin has a huge passive mitigation advantage from shield. (This is the reason we always tank twin with old, in equal gear the pld just takes way less mana to keep up.)


Your pull is, in fact. Wrong. Regardless of what the dd do they should never be able to turn the mob off you.

Fog ->Lob -> CoS during gcd -> fast -> spirits during gcd -> savage -> rage.

[PiedPiper]

Lob has a small modifier on it. So unless they hit for upwards of 6-800 on their first hit, there is no chance of a pull. A fully prebuffed bard won\\\\'t break 600 even on a crit, blm can\\\\'t already be in astral fire 3, no other class has that strong an opener.


Warriors only advantage is in aoe tanking. Mostly same threat over time, but war will do damage. And the occasional big pretty number.

[Riyos]

I'm a War. I love Wars. I hate Plds. But this thread is so stupid

[JDHiro]

Fog ->Lob -> CoS during gcd -> fast -> spirits during gcd -> savage -> rage.

I've recently had some issues with BLM pulling hate off me right at the start, especially in CT. I feel like I've managed to compensate for it with:

FoF > Lob > Halone (unstacked) > Circle > Fast > Spirits > continue combo...

I'm not sure if that's "right or not", but I'm able to front load a bit more hate on the unstacked Halone at the cost of setting my first stacked Halone back one GCD. It seems to work well for me.

[whiskeybravo]

I've recently had some issues with BLM pulling hate off me right at the start, especially in CT. I feel like I've managed to compensate for it with:

FoF > Lob > Halone (unstacked) > Circle > Fast > Spirits > continue combo...

I'm not sure if that's "right or not", but I'm able to front load a bit more hate on the unstacked Halone at the cost of setting my first stacked Halone back one GCD. It seems to work well for me.

I never really noticed before, but our FC recently got a TS3 server, and now the BLM tells me when he's got a firestarter proc and is opening with Fire3 on a fresh mob lol.. Could be something like that happening to you

Uncombo'd Halone is OK in a bind, but I don't know about making it a habit to use like that. I'm a bit behind on coil progress compared to most folks, but I had some struggles keeping aggro on the mini-ADS adds at the start of turn 1, uncombo'd butchers block didn't last long enough to get a full rotation off. Should get used to burning offensive CDs and rotating in the off-GCD moves in between aggro combo

[Kitru]

PLD hate is back loaded into Halone, if you are starting your main generating combo late, while the WAR starts his early on you, then you'll be playing catch up.

It's the exact same true with a WAR tank, except with Butcher's Block instead of Rage of Halone. In fact, a PLD is going to have the advantage at the start because of their 20% damage debuff compared to WAR's 25%. On top of that, unlike PLD which can blow their damage buff right off the bat, for a WAR, because of Wrath and Maim, it's actually best for them to wait until after 2 full rotations before activating their damage buffs (Unchained, Berserk, Internal Release). WAR *could* Infuriate>Unchained>Berserk immediately, but it generates less enmity than delaying it. In *that* case, WAR is going to be hardcore frontloaded compared to PLD if they immediately go into BB spam but will be behind until shortly after their first BB is they delay the BB combo for Maim.

As such, if a PLD and equally geared WAR are both competing for aggro, the PLD is pretty much guaranteed to have aggro for the first 10-13 GCDs (pull + 3-4 full combos) unless the WAR is going straight up balls-to-the-wall from the beginning instead of trying to optimize over time. Even then, PLD would still pull ahead right around when FoF was ending because of the Pacification. WAR and PLD are neck and neck on enmity generation and, with buffs factored in, PLD actually has a slight advantage thanks to the Berserk Pacification.

The reason that the OP is losing is still most likely what you're saying: Flash is *horrible* ST enmity generation. You actually get more out of an uncombo'd Halone (Flash is ~495, Halone is 500).

[Abigs]

snip~

BS

assuming equal gear and skill pally cannot outdo warriors in enmity.. do remember than warriors auto attacks do more damage than that of pally.. and BB has 20 more potency than halone (20 is small but do remember both skills have 5x modifier on enmity).. also wrath stacks contribute (albeit marginally thru crits) to enmity and with 5 stacks you gain access to steel cyclone (yes you sacrifice IB for it but its only an option if your pally is dumb enough to compete on aggro)

[Chiramu]

Mitigating damage is better than soaking heals without the heals doing anything. A large HP pool is nothing without mitigation.

It is stressful keeping aggro as a PLD though I agree, but the WAR's have to be more mindful of their own enmity if they are not MT.