I want to know what a non casual game is!

[Worm]

Casual/Hardcore just used to represent styles of play, now it's some pointless civil war fought by groups that have no self esteem and can only find a feeling of superiority through constantly declaring the other-side to be inferior. There are "casual" players who put in 60 hours a week all the while fuming about hardcore players, there are hardcore players who finish up their server first kill and only raid one night a week after having all the hardmode content on farm.

The idea that there aren't "casuals" who played Ultima Online or EVE is ridiculous. You can play anything hardcore OR casual. It's a ridiculous line in the sand to draw and only people who don't know what they're talking about it do it.

[Staris]

Ultima Online, Before Trammel/Felucia crap = Hardcore

[ApolloGenX]

Ultima Online was, Everquest was, FFXI was... Legends of Kesmai was.. not sure how any of those are now. Kesmai is only on private servers now.

[Worm]

Ultima Online, Before Trammel/Felucia crap = Hardcore

Though people still played the game casually. I mean no one really raised with Spellcasting legit, they all used a script. So what's the fundamental difference between UO and a game where it's easy to level? How does having skill gains being so slow that you simply cheated make that game more hardcore? Are you suddenly being casual when you use that program to raise your Spellcasting?

[MomoOG]

Hardcore MMOs required a large time investment to accomplish most things while casual MMOs don't. I'm not saying what's better or not but that is the main difference. I'm sure most people including the OP realize this and this thread was made just to create drama.

[Mudcat]

I'm of the opinion that the casual/hardcore distinction is no more than a false dichotomy. I've played FF xi for seven years as a casual hardcore and never suffered from it, as have a majority of other players I've known there. And I have only known a mere handful that could be called 'Hardcore'. The majority of game play considered to be 'Hardcore' is the kind of repetitive tedium I would term 'unfun' in polite company.

That's just my 2 gil, though.

[Welsper59]

Have you tried NES games?

I'll give you a clue: It starts with an M-...They're MMO's.

I was gonna say Metroid

[Senfei]

EVE Online can be very punishing, but I wouldn't call it hardcore. It mostly just promotes a very risk-averse playstyle, all the while calling anyone who isn't risk-averse a newb and murderballing them while stealing their stuff... and then splitting it with the other 18 people who helped you kill one person.

[Kaaylryn]

Casual/Hardcore just used to represent styles of play, now it's some pointless civil war fought by groups that have no self esteem and can only find a feeling of superiority through constantly declaring the other-side to be inferior. There are "casual" players who put in 60 hours a week all the while fuming about hardcore players, there are hardcore players who finish up their server first kill and only raid one night a week after having all the hardmode content on farm.

The idea that there aren't "casuals" who played Ultima Online or EVE is ridiculous. You can play anything hardcore OR casual. It's a ridiculous line in the sand to draw and only people who don't know what they're talking about it do it.

Bravo to this. It seems that the more people play MMO games, the more acute the division becomes. MMOs have become the past time of so many people now from kids to retirees. It is no longer the niche market of 15 or so years ago.

[Worm]

Bravo to this. It seems that the more people play MMO games, the more acute the division becomes. MMOs have become the past time of so many people now from kids to retirees. It is no longer the niche market of 15 or so years ago.

Well I think it always was a diverse market, plenty of people of all ages and backgrounds played UO and EQ. Things just weren't as focus grouped. I don't mind if games get easier (I like FFXIV's puggable raids for example) but it's important to remember that neither EQ or UO(not that I remember high level combat super well) had the kind of rotation/skill impetus that modern games have. Those older games were difficult in different ways. People are just mistaking correlation for causation. I think people now have a real expectation of being catered to, which is silly. You'll see people who want to be able to progress by playing 60 minutes a week, then on the other hand you have people who aren't happy unless it takes 60 hours a week of raiding to progress.

The silliest thing is that the guy who wants the 60 minute progression isn't going to play, and the guy who wants the 60 hours probably won't progress. It's a silly division, people are set against themselves for no good reason.