Scholar and Summoner shared attributes needs fixed!

[Phaylis]

Doesn't matter if it's intentional. It's dumb.

When pugilist gets another job that relies on STR, or when thaumaturge gets another job that relies on INT, they are going to have multiple NON-GIMPED jobs at their disposal, with just that one class leveled.

It will just be sch/smn (and other classes that have jobs with differing roles) who are screwed over, because the design is messed up.

All these arguments that say sch/smn deserve to be gimped because of them sharing a class will mean nothing then.

How is the design screwed up. Arcanist was not meant to be a healer so the class stats are in line with SMN because SMN relies on INT. When you equip the Soul Stone on Aracinst MND is now boosted in line with WHM and int is lowered. So in a nut shell they stated SCH and SMN will not share stats meaning SCH will not be an INT based healer so they will not share the same endgame gear. Each Soul boost the Main stats for the appropriate Job. A job may have the same primary stats as the class but if you unequip a soul you will notice that the stats allocation across the board is different.

I thing SE should just remove the 1 point stat allocation entirely because as ilvl of gear increase these stats will mean very little and people are making a mountain over a mole hill regarding 30 stat points.

If SE is to keep the stat boost increase as you level then I do think the 10k seals to respec is too high. It should needs to be lowered in the instance were a player may be asked to be a SMN in some content and others SCH. 10K seals seems too restrictive, maybe 3k. Currently with Arcanist being the only class with 2 jobs the cost should be removed, but say a limit to respect per day until other jobs are added.

[Sapphic]

Doesn't matter if it's intentional. It's dumb.

When pugilist gets another job that relies on STR, or when thaumaturge gets another job that relies on INT, they are going to have multiple NON-GIMPED jobs at their disposal, with just that one class leveled.

It will just be sch/smn (and other classes that have jobs with differing roles) who are screwed over, because the design is messed up.

All these arguments that say sch/smn deserve to be gimped because of them sharing a class will mean nothing then.

Or Pug could get a job based on Dex, or a tanking role based on Vit.

[Tricksta]

This is the reason Keepers Hymm is in the game people. If you want to play both classes to max effectiveness, grab a few of those and there you go. The system was intended to work this way, and will likely happen to all other classes in the future (I recall hints at Dark Knight being a dps off Gladiator). There seems to be little reason to argue about this, come on.

Also, people saying 11 did the multi class system better stat wise, merit system says hi.

[Jaq]

I'm a developer too and I'm no stranger to the face-saving "working as intended" line.

The job system "encourages" quick switching between different classes / jobs. If the game is so angled toward playing one character with multiple jobs, why arbitrarily force segregation between two of them?

It's not like it makes practical sense. If I can go from DRG to BRD to BLM and back in 10s, I should be able to do the same for SMN / SCH if I so wanted.

To those using the "well it's one class for 2 Jobs" argument, sure. I would even prefer they got rid of the split and made you level another 50 SCH or SMN independently. At least then you'd be able to work up to having instant (and optimal) switch between what could be two of your favorite jobs.

That's the point. This smells strongly of oversight. If this was game design "working as intended" truly, they wouldn't have shoved ACN on this boat all on its own, but rather presented each class with their own "dilemma."

[ispano]

Well the thing is, they announced they wouldn't use the same stats before we could even play ACN. Threads like this popped up at that time too. They didn't go anywhere either, SE stuck with their decision.

[Jaq]

Well the thing is, they announced they wouldn't use the same stats before we could even play ACN. Threads like this popped up at that time too. They didn't go anywhere either, SE stuck with their decision.

Sure, but that could be for any number of reasons. At the end of the day I don't care to call devs out for what could be laziness or just awkward design choices. At the end of the day they've implemented something in their class / job system design that causes discontent and grinds against the core philosophy this MMO uses as a selling point against others.

I'll leave it at this: I'd be happy with either making you grind to 50 twice for either job, or just getting rid of the attribute point allocations once there are more job "splits."

I kinda agree that ACN shouldn't be able to get 2 50s for the price of one, but I don't like where it's at right now, either.

[Aethaeryn]

Never mind the suggestion of stockpiling The Keeper's Hymn is flawed when it's 10,000 seals for one. I know that's not 'a lot', but it comes out to roughly 40 FATEs in the 40-50 range. I don't know about your servers, but FATEs all but died for higher levels after 2.1 with the exception of maybe 2-3 groups in Northern Thanalan if you're lucky. That still makes most FATEs take anywhere from 5-10 minutes each, so you're looking at upwards of 7 hours to get enough seals to change point allocation once IF there's no weight time between FATEs (there still is even with only a few groups doing them) and if your travel time is almost nonexistent. Never mind that you're also spending gil on repairs then and gaining little out of it if you already have jobs at 50.

Now what if you were trying to play SCH for one endgame group and SMN for another? It's not viable to keep changing your points back and forth. Luckily 30 mind does almost nothing for SCH, but it could make a difference depending on the raid/dungeon for your SMN (not to mention, it's irritating for min/max players). Also, if you try to argue rolling on items in WP or something to trade in for seals, that's not any more time efficient.

Also, they're gonna have to revamp the entire Traits system to be able to make multiple jobs stem from the same class. Otherwise you're going to have classes turning out almost exactly the same, or shared traits even more useless. It works well enough for SCH/SMN because you have completely different pets thrown into the mix, and all of SCH's defining abilities fall under the 5 provided unlocked job abilities. I think it'd be extremely bland to do this with everything and not really the best of ideas. Jobs are cookie cutter enough as is.

[YeaniNah]

me i wouldnt mind if instead of unlocking stats at lvl 10, it would be at lvl 30 when you unlock SMN you gain stats bonus FOR Smn, when you unlock SCH at 30 you get stat bonus FOR Sch. So when switch to arcanist the stat on Sch or Smn is gonne ...cos only appear on Smn or Sch job. Ain't that better

[Sapphic]

/snip

You know how much difference 30 MND makes? About +15 on your heals. Thats it! That 30 in MND or INT only makes a difference if you min/max. As the difference is minimal at best. Is healing for 1000 or 1015 really going to make much difference?

So dont overestimate the importance of 30 points to call a job "gimped".

[RegnumMagik]

You know how much difference 30 MND makes? About +15 on your heals. Thats it! That 30 in MND or INT only makes a difference if you min/max. As the difference is minimal at best. Is healing for 1000 or 1015 really going to make much difference?

So dont overestimate the importance of 30 points to call a job "gimped".

I just spent a good 10 minutes curing 460 vs 490 Mind, the difference was 100, not 15.