Scholar and Summoner shared attributes needs fixed!

[casker]

This is working as intended

I don't buy it.

Seems more like an OVERSIGHT to me.

In their very sad attempt to having some kind of character customization and old-school rpg element, SE added stat points. Of course, there is basically only one viable choice for each job. Then later they and people realized it had the side effect of screwing over Scholar/Summoner if you want to play both, and now they need to think of a way to fix it or are too lazy to.

People saying other class/job combos will have this problem---not necessarily. The reason Arcanist jobs have this problem is because it's a DPS changing to a healer and vise versa. Will a pugilist have this problem when they add another job for that class? Probably not. Will a thaumaturge have that problem? Probably not.

The game is full of conflicts like this and they are directly opposed to the goal of the class system in the first place: that you can play what you want when you want. PvP is getting boned the absolute hardest at the moment to where you can only viably play one class/job.

[ispano]

I don't buy it.

Seems more like an OVERSIGHT to me.

In their very sad attempt to having some kind of character customization and old-school rpg element, SE added stat points. Of course, there is basically only one viable choice for each job. Then later they and people realized it had the side effect of screwing over Scholar/Summoner if you want to play both, and now they need to think of a way to fix it or are too lazy to.

People saying other class/job combos will have this problem---not necessarily. The reason Arcanist jobs have this problem is because it's a DPS changing to a healer and vise versa. Will a pugilist have this problem when they add another job for that class? Probably not. Will a thaumaturge have that problem? Probably not.

The game is full of conflicts like this and they are directly opposed to the goal of the class system in the first place: that you can play what you want when you want. PvP is getting boned the absolute hardest at the moment to where you can only viably play one class/job.

Actually Yoshi specifically said it was intended in a Live Letter.

Also for the person asking about a source for wanting multiple jobs from single classes. First, it's been well known, you should have seen it more than once at least, but since not.

Q: What about “Summoner” coming from Arcanist? Two jobs from one class?
A: We mentioned before in a Live Letter that we didn’t want one job per class and that classes will branch off in the future. In the future players can imagine more classes having multiple job paths. Players like jobs such as Ninja or Samurai, whether they will be jobs from different classes is to be determined, or even if they’re in at all! Arcanist will have Carbuncle pet, and Summoner will have “Egi” versions of Primals such as Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda.

[casker]

Doesn't matter if it's intentional. It's dumb.

When pugilist gets another job that relies on STR, or when thaumaturge gets another job that relies on INT, they are going to have multiple NON-GIMPED jobs at their disposal, with just that one class leveled.

It will just be sch/smn (and other classes that have jobs with differing roles) who are screwed over, because the design is messed up.

All these arguments that say sch/smn deserve to be gimped because of them sharing a class will mean nothing then.

[ispano]

Doesn't matter if it's intentional. It's dumb.

When pugilist gets another job that relies on STR, or when thaumaturge gets another job that relies on INT, they are going to have multiple NON-GIMPED jobs at their disposal, with just that one class leveled.

It will just be sch/smn (and other classes that have jobs with differing roles) who are screwed over, because the design is messed up.

All these arguments that say sch/smn deserve to be gimped because of them sharing a class will mean nothing then.

Again, as I told the other person, I don't think it's dumb, nor do other people. People really don't want to have to make any choices, do they.

[casker]

There was an argument there that you conveniently ignored just because I also called it dumb. Your post was strictly ad populum followed by a strawman.

I'm not assuming other jobs won't have the same problem. I only brought up a HYPOTHETICAL to show that, in the case of a class having two jobs that share a stat on the same class, they won't be gimped in the same way that people are saying SCH/SMN deserve to be gimped.

On the other hand, in order to say that SMN/SCH deserve to have to deal with this stupid stat system, you have to assume that EVERY SINGLE NEW JOB will have to deal with it too.

[Naberrie]

I'm not assuming other jobs won't have the same problem. I only brought up a HYPOTHETICAL to show that, in the case of a class having two jobs that share a stat on the same class, they won't be gimped in the same way that people are saying SCH/SMN deserve to be gimped.

It's all hypothetical. So is your concept that there may, at some point, be a class that won't have this issue, which I personally consider unlikely. I think Arcanist is a preview of what's to come and that every single class will have to deal with this. I think they'll go out of their way to make it happen.

[casker]

It's all hypothetical. So is your concept that there may, at some point, be a class that won't have this issue, which I personally consider unlikely. I think Arcanist is a preview of what's to come and that every single class will have to deal with this. I think they'll go out of their way to make it happen.

So you think it's more likely that every single job will have stat conflicts, than will there be just one single job that uses the same stat of an existing job.

[ispano]

There was an argument there that you conveniently ignored just because I also called it dumb. Your post was strictly ad populum followed by a strawman.

I'm not assuming other jobs won't have the same problem. I only brought up a HYPOTHETICAL to show that, in the case of a class having two jobs that share a stat on the same class, they won't be gimped in the same way that people are saying SCH/SMN deserve to be gimped.

On the other hand, in order to say that SMN/SCH deserve to have to deal with this stupid stat system, you have to assume that EVERY SINGLE NEW JOB will have to deal with it too.

First, the only one saying "deserve" is you. I see where you feel it's being implied however, but that's not what's being said. We have no idea if they chose to do it this way because you get the second job "for free" or not. And yes, you are assuming other jobs won't have the same problem. Same as others could assume they will have the same problem. Because we don't know yet.

For all we know they decided to do this for classes that branch into different roles and only those classes. ie if Archer turns into Ranger down the line and also uses DEX. Or perhaps the resulting jobs are designed with the stat split in mind. Maybe we should talk about how Scholar, even if you throw all 30 points into MND, is still worse off MND wise than WHM. Or does this go back around to the job being designed around the possibility of having bad stat allocations?

So no, we don't have to assume every new job will have to "deal" with it.

EDIT: This also isn't the type of argument with a clear right or wrong, which is what you seem to be pushing. People have views and opinions. People may like it the way it is and that in itself is not wrong.

[FJerome]

Doesn't matter if it's intentional. It's dumb.

When pugilist gets another job that relies on STR, or when thaumaturge gets another job that relies on INT, they are going to have multiple NON-GIMPED jobs at their disposal, with just that one class leveled.

It will just be sch/smn (and other classes that have jobs with differing roles) who are screwed over, because the design is messed up.

All these arguments that say sch/smn deserve to be gimped because of them sharing a class will mean nothing then.

I can easily see the second monk job relying on DEX or the thaumaturge job that relying on PIE instead. Especially the second, killing yourself to cast Meteor is a fine series tradition.

[casker]

I can easily see the second monk job relying on DEX or the thaumaturge job that relying on PIE instead. Especially the second, killing yourself to cast Meteor is a fine series tradition.

I can too, the point is just to illustrate that the system won't necesssarily gimp ALL jobs to the same degree. People are saying sch/smn deserve to have this dilemma because they come from one class, but eventually, what if there is a class with two jobs that use the same stat? By people's arguments around here, they would deserve to be gimped too, but they wouldn't be.