Instanced Raids Unveiled!

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

It was exploitable in FF11, yes, with Astral burns and what not.

It depends if it's an exploit or not if the relative difficulty of doing the dungeon is easier than grinding at your actual level. If there is a glaring disparity, then yeah, it's an exploit, but there can be countermeasures in place to avoid that as well as game balance adjustments.

But seeing as how dungeon content is supposed to be harder than normal grinding, I don't see how it's much of an exploit.

But there in lies another issue, maybe the leading factor as to WHY it is the way it is. Maybe the dungeons are meant to be a viable alternative to leves and grinding. The trade off, then, would be that you can go in and grind mobs for SP in a dungeon for 10 levels, but you may exceed your 60 minutes if you want to get good SP.

[Airlea]

If there is a glaring disparity, then yeah, it's an exploit, but there can be countermeasures in place to avoid that as well as game balance adjustments.

There are. There's a time restriction on how often you can enter, which more than likely will be 24-36hrs. Not so sure "grinding," in a dungeon for an hour every day would fall into the exploit category.

[Focant]

I agree people *may* be over-reacting here, in that if it turns out as you suggested, people will just have to deal with the fact that it's not the content a lot of people were after. That said, Square needs to realize they don't have too much good will from the player base left (if any at all).

My concern is this (admittedly I'm not that passionate about it): If I try the content with a rank 25 class. Very quickly, I hit rank 26, and then 27, and so on. Very quickly the dungeon becomes easy (assuming it's challenging at 25). So I think the overall concern is that this patch will essentially add 1 dungeon people actually care about, and the second dungeon will be something a lot of people crash through a few times to see what it's like but move on quickly because it's too easy.

Of course, if FFXIV had 20 dungeons, I think people would expect this type of content. Or at least something similar to it. So I personally don't have a huge problem with the uncapped r25 dungeon, I'm just not excited for it.

As an aside, I think people saying things like "just run it at r30 if you want a challenge" is a bit disingenuous. It's not easy to find people around a particular level. Soon enough, people at 32, and 34, say they'll come and eventually the person organizing the raid gives in and takes them. And the dungeon becomes a lot easier. Of course, that's the human side of all this and someone holding firm *can* hold off for nobody over r30. But I think that's more difficult than simply saying it.

Well I suppose I understand what you're saying but I think it's far too early to be coming to conclusions like that. For one we have no idea how long the dungeons are, how much sp they give, or, really, anything about them at all aside from entry requirements.

Also I think content like this would benefit greatly from an improved party search mechanic. There aren't really that few people in the proper rank range, it's just not easy to find them walking down the street. Again though, we need to just wait and see. As it is we're basically arguing which way the wind is blowing on the other side of the world.

[Akuun]

Are four players required to enter rank 25+ raids? And 8 for 45+?
Currently, yes. Rank 25+ raids will require four players to enter, and rank 45+ raids will require a full party of 8. This is a result of the balancing that is done inside of the actual raid, along with ensuring proper load on the servers are maintained. With the release of patch 1.18 we will monitor the comments and feedback from the community and re-evaluate as necessary and implement variations as needed.

But... are these raids gonna be tough? I want a challenge! I CRAVE A CHALLENGE!!!1
Rest assured... When speaking about the current raid dungeons, we can sum it up in one word: difficult.

LOL don't say that to XI players such as myself, we'll be laughing at the ridiculous ease of this new content.

[Focant]

No?

This is exactly the problem. We should have been demanding change months ago. Not now or after the content is added. This needs to be demanded now. Nothing will make people quit a game faster than not being able to do content because they don't have enough members due to requirements like that.

What happened to making informed decisions? How can you demand change for something you know nothing about? Isn't experience and familiarity valued over theory and assumptions? Seriously, wait to experience it. See if it's really as bad as you say, and THEN change it. Why change something because you "think" it'll be bad but have no real reason to assume such?

It's fine to be worried and skeptical and to discuss it as such, but to DEMAND change based on something so insubstantial is just ridiculous.

[TheVedis]

No?

This is exactly the problem. We should have been demanding change months ago. Not now or after the content is added. This needs to be demanded now. Nothing will make people quit a game faster than not being able to do content because they don't have enough members due to requirements like that.

you know thats the funniest part of these threads

the issue of the party size "requirement" is so much bigger then capping the dungeons

yet people are more worried about wether or not a 50 will go in and do the dungeon easier for gear

[Val_Rhys]

Well I suppose I understand what you're saying but I think it's far too early to be coming to conclusions like that. For one we have no idea how long the dungeons are, how much sp they give, or, really, anything about them at all aside from entry requirements.

Also I think content like this would benefit greatly from an improved party search mechanic. There aren't really that few people in the proper rank range, it's just not easy to find them walking down the street. Again though, we need to just wait and see. As it is we're basically arguing which way the wind is blowing on the other side of the world.

Oh I agree with that. I think people do have a bit of a right to be skeptical and questioning before we accept terrible content because this game, frankly, can't afford that anymore.

The only reason I checked this thread out though was the r50 dungeon 8 player requirement. That is something that really bothers me.

[Xenor]

in XI you had to sit out on stuff like Bahamut v2, or Omega/Ultima as well, if more than 18ppl showed up. .

It's one thing sitting out because you have too many show up, but quite another to sit out because you're one or two members short of the requirement. No one is asking to enter this dungeon with 9 or 10 people. We're asking to enter it with 6-7 in a situation where 12-15 people show up. If 9 turn up then tough luck on the 9th, but the content should be manageable (although more difficult) with 6 or 7. The fact the developers are willing to consider lowering the requirement at all tells you this.

[Xenor]

you know thats the funniest part of these threads

the issue of the party size "requirement" is so much bigger then capping the dungeons

yet people are more worried about wether or not a 50 will go in and do the dungeon easier for gear

I'm worried about both, but the focus of my rage is more important on the requirement issue for now. Both are bad ideas by the developers.

[Nero]

Bay, this doesn't make any sense. You can't have a difficult raid if you can take classes in that are 20 levels over the intended design of the area. It can't work. If the one word is difficult, then by default it isn't even a rank 30 dungeon. It's a rank 50 dungeon you would be crazy to take R30s into.

Otherwise, the one word is not difficult.

Learn to Read. Noone said that the Rank of the Mob wont change if you enter a R25 Dungeon, with a R50 Class.