Instanced Raids Unveiled!

[Lilith]

Self-centeredness: own opinion = fact, the rest is bull****
That's the reason why I should really just stick to dev posts only.

[Focant]

A cap is a cap isn't it? Even at rank 42, if you are CAPPED at r30, by definition you shouldn't be getting SP. Can someone confirm how it was in CoP? I'm pretty sure that if you went into a lvl 30 Promy on a rank 40 job, you didn't get XP.

If you were capped everything about you was changed, including your ability to obtain exp. For all intents and purposes you were level 30 (or whatever level) and obtained exp as such. The exp wasn't GOOD but you still got it.

[Rentahamster]

A cap is a cap isn't it? Even at rank 42, if you are CAPPED at r30, by definition you shouldn't be getting SP. Can someone confirm how it was in CoP? I'm pretty sure that if you went into a lvl 30 Promy on a rank 40 job, you didn't get XP.

You still got EXP for level sync in FF11, I don't see why it can't be any different. As long as you kill mobs that are rank-appropriate (real level or synced level) it doesn't matter since you are killing mobs that are challenging.

[TirionCrey]

I could solo the R30 NMs if they unlocked the player requirements, so your input is irrelevant. I can destroy a party of rank 30's as a rank 50.
So yeah. I'd be soloing the R30 dungeon. Maybe you wouldn't on whatever caliber of conjurer or thaumaturge you have.

I'm not you. Pretty obvious.

No you won't cause you NEED to be in a group of 4 people to enter the dungeon. And what the fuck is wrong with you. It's a R30 dungeon...so its tuned for R30s, not R50s...if you want a challenge in it, you need to go in it as R30, not R50...and this applies to ALL MMORPGs out there. Once you overlevel something, it becomes easier, but it's not content for the high lvls, its content for the low lvls, so there is nothing wrong with it. As a R50 there should be nothing of interest in the R30 dnugeon for you anyway...so obviously you enter and try to get the R50 dungeon done...and its tuned for R50, so the word "difficult" applie to it as much as it does to the R30 dnugeon, cause its tuned for that.

If you want a difficult R30 dungeon that even R50s have a hard time finishing it, why would you call it R30...you are just retarded. Use your common sense, or do other people need to chew your food for you? If Yoshida says "difficult" to both dungeons, he obviously means difficult for the TARGETED group of people the content was made for, which would be R30s in the case of the lower rank dungeon. THINK!

To the topic: Can people actually start to think? People want challenge in dungeons...they want difficulty...they want endgame content...well...I'm sorry but if you're allowed to bring as many peolpe as you wish, there is no challenge anymore. Content must be tuned for a specific size of groups to make it challenging, otherwise all balancing is in vain. So if you have trouble getting together a group of 8, start recruiting people that are interested in that kind of content. If you got too many ppl showing up and some have to sit out, get some rotation going...it's not that hard...beating endgame content means organising shit and if you're not able to do that, you shouldn't lead a LS in the first place that wants to do endgame. Endgame requires organisation and people who can think of stuff beforehand and deal with it in a proper manner with solutions. If you got members who are not willing to join in on the R50 dungeon every 2nd run, instead of EACH one, they are greedy lil lootwhores and you should sort them out anyway...

2nd possible conclusion, get enough for 2 groups and nobody/less ppl need to sit out. If you got more than 16 active players wanting to participate in endgame(which is unlikely at the current state of FFXIV), well, then some ppl have to sit out, but that's life... As long as the lockout timer for the dungeon won't be more than 2-3 days, I'm fine with sitting out every now and then, that's part of playing endgame...in XI you had to sit out on stuff like Bahamut v2, or Omega/Ultima as well, if more than 18ppl showed up. Sometimes you have to sit out, cause you don't have the class lvld thats needed...so there is a lot of reasons someone has to sit out and if that someone is not willing to do that...well fuck him...

PS: I can't wait for the threads about "PLS NERF R50 dungeon" cause my pick up group of mentally retarded people can't finish it within the timelimit...

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

You still got EXP for level sync in FF11, I don't see why it can't be any different. As long as you kill mobs that are rank-appropriate (real level or synced level) it doesn't matter since you are killing mobs that are challenging.

Then it seems like it could be exploitable. There would no longer be incentive to go level my 45 lancer on appropriate mobs when I could just sit in a dungeon that caps my level and gives me the same SP.

[Gidonoidon_Sur]

There is going to be grumbling either way: level cap or no level cap. If you want a challenge then do the one appropriate for you. But believe me, if there was a level cap, just like most of the CoP missions people would complain about that. It has already happened in the past, and people were upset. People will always be upset. Can't please everyone.

I personally disagree. I don't see a legitimate reason to NOT have a cap.

"I am rank 50 so it should be easy if I want"

Then go kill rank 30 monsters, but, your not getting SP or gear for it.

[Val_Rhys]

So I'm a bit confused by the outrage over there being no level cap on the mid-level dungeon. What exactly about that is bad? ...

I agree people *may* be over-reacting here, in that if it turns out as you suggested, people will just have to deal with the fact that it's not the content a lot of people were after. That said, Square needs to realize they don't have too much good will from the player base left (if any at all).

My concern is this (admittedly I'm not that passionate about it): If I try the content with a rank 25 class. Very quickly, I hit rank 26, and then 27, and so on. Very quickly the dungeon becomes easy (assuming it's challenging at 25). So I think the overall concern is that this patch will essentially add 1 dungeon people actually care about, and the second dungeon will be something a lot of people crash through a few times to see what it's like but move on quickly because it's too easy.

Of course, if FFXIV had 20 dungeons, I think people would expect this type of content. Or at least something similar to it. So I personally don't have a huge problem with the uncapped r25 dungeon, I'm just not excited for it.

As an aside, I think people saying things like "just run it at r30 if you want a challenge" is a bit disingenuous. It's not easy to find people around a particular level. Soon enough, people at 32, and 34, say they'll come and eventually the person organizing the raid gives in and takes them. And the dungeon becomes a lot easier. Of course, that's the human side of all this and someone holding firm *can* hold off for nobody over r30. But I think that's more difficult than simply saying it.

[Rentahamster]

Then it seems like it could be exploitable. There would no longer be incentive to go level my 45 lancer on appropriate mobs when I could just sit in a dungeon that caps my level and gives me the same SP.

It was exploitable in FF11, yes, with Astral burns and what not.

It depends if it's an exploit or not if the relative difficulty of doing the dungeon is easier than grinding at your actual level. If there is a glaring disparity, then yeah, it's an exploit, but there can be countermeasures in place to avoid that as well as game balance adjustments.

But seeing as how dungeon content is supposed to be harder than normal grinding, I don't see how it's much of an exploit.

[Focant]

I personally disagree. I don't see a legitimate reason to NOT have a cap.

"I am rank 50 so it should be easy if I want"

Then go kill rank 30 monsters, but, your not getting SP or gear for it.

As I understand it a rank 50 would not get SP in this dungeon (because there's no cap) and the gear is mid-level stuff. What's the issue exactly? It's content meant for mid-level players to do and find challenging. If a rank 50 wants to get some buddies together and steamroll the dungeon then whatever, that's a challenge and fun they've missed out on. This should, however, have NO effect on your own enjoyment of the content.

[Xenor]

That party size requirements and such aren't forever fixed. Just wait and see how things pan out and if you don't like it? Fine, demand change. For now I suggest we chill a bit.

No?

This is exactly the problem. We should have been demanding change months ago. Not now or after the content is added. This needs to be demanded now. Nothing will make people quit a game faster than not being able to do content because they don't have enough members due to requirements like that.