Instanced Raids Unveiled!

[Rentahamster]

then make it an accomplishemtn for you, no one is going to stop you from doing that

I'm not going to run the R30 dungeon as a rank 30 if I don't have to. That would be silly. I'm going to run it as my rank 50 char, just like everyone else.

you are putting too much into caring about what other people do

That's because I'm thinking from the perspective of game design, not from the perspective of a player. Sometimes what the players think they want is not always the best thing for them.

I want all the raid items to have worth and meaning. I want them to be a significant and meaningful reward that acts as a reminder of all the hard work a player has done.

I want the R30 dungeon content to last longer than 2 weeks, since any content that is too easy quickly becomes boring. The longer each individual piece of content stays fresh in the players' minds, the longer I can spend developing new content and not having to rush it out.

[Airlea]

Of course I farmed the gear. No one in their right mind is going to fight stuff at a lower rank if they don't have to. That is why in certain applications, like a specifically designed raid dungeon, level caps are good to maintain value and gameplay longevity.

So in other words I just got the "well, that's different..."

It's different because it's NMs that drop r30 gear? 99% of it you won't use endgame, and even then it's situational. No different than the gear from the 30 dungeons I'd imagine. That's why so few care if r50s could roll through it. Let them. They'd be farming temporary gear for the grind on another job. I really don't see what the big deal is. Let other people play how other people want to. It's not like this would somehow prevent you from choosing to do the content at a lower rank.

[TheVedis]

I'm not going to run the R30 dungeon as a rank 30 if I don't have to. That would be silly. I'm going to run it as my rank 50 char, just like everyone else.


That's because I'm thinking from the perspective of game design, not from the perspective of a player. Sometimes what the players think they want is not always the best thing for them.

I want all the raid items to have worth and meaning. I want them to be a significant and meaningful reward that acts as a reminder of all the hard work a player has done.

I want the R30 dungeon content to last longer than 2 weeks, since any content that is too easy quickly becomes boring. The longer each individual piece of content stays fresh in the players' minds, the longer I can spend developing new content and not having to rush it out.

so youll do it at 50 because you can?

and that would be your right, no one would stop you from doing that

but what happens if you friends dont want you on a 50? they want you on a 30 character, would you go down to 30 to do it? or would you tell them to F off?
i personaly would use the character appropriate to the group, and id be very happy to have the CHOICE to do so


the r30 content again, is just that, r30 content, its nto meant to last as long as r50 content, why do you think yoshi is mentioning the hard r50 boss which people are going to have to figure out, and nothing about the r30 dungeon?

cuz guess what, the r30 dungeon is FILLER not meant to keep you occupied over and over and over, thats the r50 dungeons job

the r30 dungeon is filler til you get to the r50

[Airlea]

PS: This is all assuming that 8man group consists of reasonable players who know how to play(common sense and knowledge of game mechanics, not the uber pros who deal 2% more dmg than the average pro blah blah BS)

Again, your reasonable and knowledgeable players aren't my reasonable and knowledgeable players. Your common sense isn't my common sense. This is why it's such a touchy thing. Everyone has a different opinion as far as what difficulty really is, and there's no true right or wrong answer.

[Rentahamster]

So in other words I just got the "well, that's different..."

It IS different.

It's different because the current NMs are open-world and anyone can fight them. That's the nature of open-world.

It's different because the dungeon content is supposed to be specifically designed to be difficult, and it's not difficult if you can just steamroll through the rank 30 dungeon with a rank 50 class.

99% of it you won't use endgame, and even then it's situational.

Nope. There are many R30 NM items that are used in endgame: Kokoroon armor, Conqistador Elmo, Nighthawk Visor, Eternal Shade, Vambraces, Penance, Seer's Cowl, Bilaud.

so youll do it at 50 because you can?

I do it at 50 because it's a waste of my time otherwise.

but what happens if you friends dont want you on a 50? they want you on a 30 character, would you go down to 30 to do it? or would you tell them to F off?
i personaly would use the character appropriate to the group, and id be very happy to have the CHOICE to do so

If they asked me to come as a lower rank class, of course I would do that. I still have rank 30-ish classes to rank up so that would be fine.

It's funny that you give this scenario as your example of having a "CHOICE", since if my friends want me to play, and I want to play as a R30 Thaumatuge, I do not have the "CHOICE" to do so because I am a rank 50 THM.

Your argument for "no level caps" is for players to have the CHOICE to steamroll dungeons as a rank 50 character, not to accommodate their friends.

cuz guess what, the r30 dungeon is FILLER not meant to keep you occupied over and over and over, thats the r50 dungeons job

the r30 dungeon is filler til you get to the r50

And if the R30 dungeon had level caps, it would no longer be filler, and would actually be real, repeatable content, just like the rank 50 dungeon.

This is the whole reason why BCNM fights are level capped in FF11.

[TheVedis]

It IS different.

It's different because the current NMs are open-world and anyone can fight them. That's the nature of open-world.

It's different because the dungeon content is supposed to be specifically designed to be difficult, and it's not difficult if you can just steamroll through the rank 30 dungeon with a rank 50 class.


Nope. There are many R30 NM items that are used in endgame: Kokoroon armor, Conqistador Elmo, Nighthawk Visor, Eternal Shade, Vambraces, Penance, Seer's Cowl, Bilaud.


I do it at 50 because it's a waste of my time otherwise.


If they asked me to come as a lower rank class, of course I would do that. I still have rank 30-ish classes to rank up so that would be fine.

It's funny that you give this scenario as your example of having a "CHOICE", since if my friends want me to play, and I want to play as a R30 Thaumatuge, I do not have the "CHOICE" to do so because I am a rank 50 THM.

Your argument for "no level caps" is for players to have the CHOICE to steamroll dungeons as a rank 50 character, not to accommodate their friends.



And if the R30 dungeon had level caps, it would no longer be filler, and would actually be real, repeatable content, just like the rank 50 dungeon.

This is the whole reason why BCNM fights are level capped in FF11.

so if you want a choice to do it on 30 thm instead of 50 thm, and caps were "optional" then that would be that standard be ok then wouldnt it?

so a forced cap doesnt matter, an optional one would be ok to you?

[Rentahamster]

so if you want a choice to do it on 30 thm instead of 50 thm, and caps were "optional" then that would be that standard be ok then wouldnt it?

so a forced cap doesnt matter, an optional one would be ok to you?

As I've said before, an optional cap is perfectly fine, as long as I don't get rewarded with good R30 loot for zerging through a R30 dungeon with a rank 50 character.

[TheVedis]

As I've said before, an optional cap is perfectly fine, as long as I don't get rewarded with good R30 loot for zerging through a R30 dungeon with a rank 50 character.

you can always drop that loot if you feel you didnt deserve it

but again, you shouldnt force your opinion of that on others, they earned it, and it isnt up to you to determine if they did or did not

[Rentahamster]

you can always drop that loot if you feel you didnt deserve it

but again, you shouldnt force your opinion of that on others, they earned it, and it isnt up to you to determine if they did or did not

This isn't about me and whether or not I think I or you or anyone else deserves anything.

This is about the game as a whole and trying to keep content fresh with a long shelf life, as well as having players feel a sense of accomplishment in their adventures.

[TheVedis]

This isn't about me and whether or not I think I or you or anyone else deserves anything.

This is about the game as a whole and trying to keep content fresh with a long shelf life, as well as having players feel a sense of accomplishment in their adventures.

its not on you to determine if others feel a sense of accomplishment

you keep talking as if what you think matters as far as what others feel about their game experience
how others percieve things arent how you do, face that fact