Mistaking difficulty for other things

[Perrin_Aybarra]

i'm all with you on that topic, and still the fights have to be a challenge. The cap alone (looking at how easy the game currently is) won't save the game. The difficulty and like _C-a-e-r-i-t-h_ posted, the way the fights are designed matters
here. And that is where i doubt, that SE will do the right moves. Since so far they put "retard" on par with "casual" - which is BS -. At least the easy-mode all-around cries that out loud... so that has to be their direction atm. Mechanics like this are a killer for every game since ppl won't subscribe for an easy-mode grindfest (crafting).

I agree, it wouldn't solve the very fact that right now everything is too easy, even if it was capped. I hope like many that they heard us in saying that everyone (hardcores or casuals) want a challenge, and that they know that challenge doesn't mean time sink but skillful play and well designed encounters.

[Xeak]

I think adding difficulty to the game will definitely make it a lot better, even if it's just adjusting the strengths of the monsters. I liked how in FFXI it took time to defeat even normal monsters that con EP. In FFXIV you can kill about 10 monsters in the same time. During leves when groups of monsters attack, I don't mind that mobs being easier than normal, but balance it a bit to give it a challenge. I hate just going in and pressing 1 for a normal attack maybe 3 times and then I'm ready to fight the next monster in line.

Also, I do like the idea of implementing some kind of caps. CoP was the best expansion for FFXI, and it was because of the caps. It took me months to beat the Promyvions (mostly because it was a weekend thing I did with friends), but even when I had finished I would always be the first (and only) to offer help to people who haven't done it because I enjoyed the challenge. I enjoyed capped Promyvions and mammets more than any other content in the entire game (mammets was as far as I had gotten before the removal of caps, then I just quit doing CoP because of lack of challenge).

And if there are no caps, at least scale the monster levels up to match the highest player, like someone had suggested in another thread. It greatly pisses me off, especially in FFXI, that players get handed things to them because they have such great buddies (like a friend of mine I had received a Haubergeon from someone for free when it was still worth a million or 2) while I'm working my ass off to achieve the same thing because I don't have friends who are that kind to help me.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

I think SE's definition of challenge has died. To me CoP was the golden age of MMORPG, the very definition of what it should be. FFXIV is becoming more and more a joke of a game, trying to make everything so easy that even facebook games are starting to be more challenging.

Like you said Xeak, I also loved to go back to help friends do their CoP missions, loved the fact that I was capped and that there was always a challenge waiting. Removing the cap was really a bad decision if you ask me, there are plenty of games that pretends to be MMORPGs out there that already allows you to go steamroll through their content... FFXIV should be aimed for a different crew.

[Xeak]

Agreed. Throughout Final Fantasy's long and glorious career, the games have continued to be aimed at pro-gamers, people who love the challenge. Since FF became an MMO (at least in recent years on FFXI) it's targeting players who I'll refer to as pansies. They think something's too difficult because they went through it once, failed, and never bothered to try again. I suppose most MMOs would rather their players just be bulked up with tons of content that they'll never bore of regardless of being so easy (like WoW). I think the easy content is a bore just going through it the first time, and getting whatever treasures from it isn't as rewarding, and those "elitists" who rule WoW shouldn't be considered elitists. I'm sure many on here will agree with me on that, I know plenty of people on the Bismarck server on FFXI did. It's the challenges of the game that makes elite players. I would like to see FFXIV as challenging as FFXI had been and then some. That would make for the perfect MMO imo.

It seems like SE just wants players for now though, which is understandable. FFXI didn't have the cred that WoW did. It took FFXI 6 years I believe to reach 2 million subscribers while WoW had 10 million in maybe about 3 years. So giving us content that's enjoyable and easy for now I'm not completely against, but I hope they give us plenty of challenging content when the PS3 release comes and we have to start paying a subscription fee. I've stuck with FFXIV since alpha, even on my laptop where the graphics lagged unbelievably. (I have a desktop now that's a lot better!) My hopes for this game have no dwindled a bit. But if FFXIV continues to target pansies like the WoW audience, I'm not sure I'll stick around very long. Each time I started up on WoW I could only play for maybe 2 months before boring of it and quitting for a year. I would hate it if FFXIV became just like that for me.

[Morphemes]

battle mechanic is paramount... ease of access is a perk until its perfect. enjoy it while it lasts foo. your a tester, freebee duh

[Platinumstorm]

My post at this time is useless but at some point I would be increasing the time it takes to level from 1-20, and decreasing the time it takes to level from 20-50, while developing challenging content to get through for all level ranges. Challenge should come from mechanisms from both the player's class and the monster's ability, not from the time it takes you to get leveled up.

We aren't in a "content wave," yet, because core systems are still being redesigned, but once core systems are finished, then content needs to be fleshed out for all level ranges.

Some people are talking about satisfaction. There's not a lot of satisfaction in the game like someone else mentioned because there is so much money in the game; which makes acquiring gear feel trivial; especially since all of the weapons and armor are undervalued anyhow.

I think the worst part of lack of satisfaction are the terrible, terrible moves that you gain as you rank up. They make no impact and aren't significantly different from the other moves that you get, so there's no challenge to your moves, and for the most part you can just pick an assortment of moves that you like the animations for and use them.

I suppose most MMOs would rather their players just be bulked up with tons of content that they'll never bore of regardless of being so easy (like WoW). I think the easy content is a bore just going through it the first time, and getting whatever treasures from it isn't as rewarding, and those "elitists" who rule WoW shouldn't be considered elitists.

?

While WoW does baby people through leveling, the game does have interesting mechanisms in their raiding. This game has no interesting mechanisms in the game at all, and coordination is almost never required.

WoW's newest content patch has more casual player mechanics than FF14 has in the entire game for hardcore/casual mechanics combined.

You're correct that FFXIV needs players desperately, which means there has to be accessible content - and content that is aimed at the lower levels is arguably more important right now than content aimed at higher levels.

You're incorrect that WoW is full of pansies, as it has a wide assortment of players, but any WoW player could easily do any of the content in FFXIV provided they would last through the boredom in this game.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

I didn't enjoy the level caps in CoP. I enjoyed the content. The level caps were necessary because those areas and fights were balanced for level 30, 40, 50, or 60, and would be utterly broken by a level 75 rushing through. When the devs made CoP, they had the option of either capping the areas, optimizing the entire expansion for level 75, or letting people get a different experience solely based on whether they want to overlevel for it.

CoP's level caps were a pain in the ass, but totally worth it.

[Xeak]

Is it wrong to ask for difficult content as soon as it's released? Personally I would like a challenge that's nearly unbeatable as soon as it's released and as testing goes weaken it a tad to see how it works. That way it'll keep people wanting to try to beat it for the rewards, and people won't be through the whole thing within a few weeks (maybe days) and just quit running it altogether. And it'd be an extra perk for those LS elitists that manage to beat the content, because they'd have bragging rights for the rest of the game's existence as long as they have proof to show that they did it, and when they did it.

[MistyMew]

Is it wrong to ask for difficult content as soon as it's released? Personally I would like a challenge that's nearly unbeatable as soon as it's released and as testing goes weaken it a tad to see how it works. That way it'll keep people wanting to try to beat it for the rewards, and people won't be through the whole thing within a few weeks (maybe days) and just quit running it altogether. And it'd be an extra perk for those LS elitists that manage to beat the content, because they'd have bragging rights for the rest of the game's existence as long as they have proof to show that they did it, and when they did it.

the minute someone gains "bragging rights" over a pretend fight is the day ff community dwindles to the depths of the wow community sadly. ewwwww
not to mention the "elitists". thats exactly what this game does NOT need tyvm.

[Dragon]

Having to look left and right at the same time.

I do that all the time, what's your problem?

Is it wrong to ask for difficult content as soon as it's released? Personally I would like a challenge that's nearly unbeatable as soon as it's released and as testing goes weaken it a tad to see how it works. That way it'll keep people wanting to try to beat it for the rewards, and people won't be through the whole thing within a few weeks (maybe days) and just quit running it altogether. And it'd be an extra perk for those LS elitists that manage to beat the content, because they'd have bragging rights for the rest of the game's existence as long as they have proof to show that they did it, and when they did it.

I agree.

All content should be difficult to beat when it first comes out, and then dwindles over on a monthly-scheduled system by the devs.

Topic: I remember hating the caps in FFXI, then I started playing more games without the level caps (well that or those MMORPGs' version of level caps that were more like level restrictions), and at the end of the day I realized I'd rather have the level caps implemented in FFXI since it can keep content fresh and/or at least keeps content from 'disappearing' because you're too high for said content or the sort thereof.

Then once level caps are implemented, it would be nice to start seeing level-scaled quests and missions too. Like instead of removing the cap for the promies, you could go in as Lv.30 or Lv.75 after beating them while capped at Lv.30. (Though to prevent abuse, you would have to exit to join others for the other cap; otherwise you wouldn't be able to group up or interact with anyone not under the same level cap.)