So apparently FFXIV-App is banworthy now?

[Peptaru]

You used sarcasm almost like you learned something, because yes Blowfin, if someone is making a claim that it's known for those things, they SHOULD provide proof! Then you let the world down by going back to the same place you've been at all day... you got my hopes for humanity up and then dashed them in your next post. Well done.

To another poster... Parsers collect game data. Data that is available to your eyes. "Otherwise collect information from the game using. . ." Tell me again how it is NOT data mining according to the definition in the ToS, please.

To Ryel on the next page (post limit): You are very correct, it is about context, but I think you're forgetting the biggest context. If they do not make an exception for VPN's how many subs will they lose? There are people who cannot do anything in game without one. The context is money, it's always money for SE now. Which is fine, I suppose. They are a business after all. There is a reason they commented on tunneling services directly, because it would have been too costly to ban for them.

[RoninDarkchild]

/thread

If you guys want to argue the logic of such a rule and where it fits into the whole grand scheme of "fun enhancement," then that's another story. BUT until official word from SE says otherwise, parsers fall into the Data Mining category of in-game no-nos and anyone who tries to argue the opposite has no case to present.
Don't get me wrong, I am curious on what SE has to say on this issue. Maybe some of the arguments raised by both sides won't fall on deaf ears. Of course, you never know with SE, so I won't get my hopes up.

Oh?? So youre saying tunnelling software isnt 3rd party tool that sends and recieves (collect) data (packets) for lower latency? What does it send? Glitter? I guess VPNs are encrypted not to protect your private data being sent through its Private server but for funs and giggles. So a rep never gave the ok for said 3rd party tool that collects information to reduce your latency? Said rep didnt expressly stipulate that since said 3rd party tool did NOTHING to the game client that it was ok to keep using that 3rd party tool? You just contradicted yourself.

But nice try... they are referring to the sort of "game information collecting" as one would do when Data mining.....pulling undisclosed information from the game. Not the function of a desk top calculator that does your math for you... why?? Because it only READS a log for you, not manipulate the game client to EXTRACT said information.

[Ryel]

You used sarcasm almost like you learned something, because yes Blowfin, if someone is making a claim that it's known for those things, they SHOULD provide proof! Then you let the world down by going back to the same place you've been at all day... you got my hopes for humanity up and then dashed them in your next post. Well done.

To another poster... Parsers collect game data. Data that is available to your eyes. "Otherwise collect information from the game using. . ." Tell me again how it is NOT data mining according to the definition in the ToS, please.

Because the difference is contextual in this case, the change to the ToS regarding data mining was in response to players going through benchmark and patch data to find out the stats and details of equipment etc before the game was live or accessible. This is data that is not presented to you visually and in a manner that you could personally keep track of without the aid of 3rd party software and thus it is against the ToS to use software that enables you to view this.

However this is something SE now does on their own via the Eorzea database, most likely because they know there are people who will continue to do so otherwise, If you don't believe me check the database when the game goes down for the 2.2 patch it'll more than likely be updated long before the game goes live as was the case with patch 2.1.

These are two completely different scenarios and why the rep response is applicable here, I know it's been posted before but I'll quote it again.

The type of software you are describing in this thread doesn't appear to directly control anything for the FFXIV client, and as such isn't breaking any of the rules. Similar to other programs, 3rd party software is used at your own risk, and we recommend you employ your best judgement when running software not mentioned in the user agreement.

I pointed out before that the quote in question was posted in a thread responding about the usage of VPNs in particular however the section i bolded and underlined applies to this directly as well.

Given that a parser a 3rd party program doesn't:

- Make viewable information that we cannot visibly see and keep track of manually ourselves via in game logs

- Make alterations to the game data in any fashion

It stands to reason that the above response is applicable.

As i previously stated anything beyond this pertaining to what players in game choose to do with the data they have available (whether parsed by hand or via 3rd party tool) would fall under harassment if it came down to grieving another player.

I would like to add to this that they very well could update and change the ToS to reflect that they view parsing and calculating in-game logs via a third party program or otherwise to not be allowed, this is by far well within their right. However to say that the ToS accurately covers this at this current time is inaccurate.

And for the record, i don't even use one however i personally don't mind if others wish to.

To Ryel on the next page (post limit): You are very correct, it is about context, but I think you're forgetting the biggest context. If they do not make an exception for VPN's how many subs will they lose? There are people who cannot do anything in game without one. The context is money, it's always money for SE now. Which is fine, I suppose. They are a business after all. There is a reason they commented on tunneling services directly, because it would have been too costly to ban for them.

I agree it very well could be, i myself am one of those people that needs a VPN to properly play this game at times, an issue i have not faced with any other MMO i have played in the last 10 years (FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 counted amongst them)

which honestly is why this thread can very much use a direct Dev or community rep response sooner rather than later so we can get a definitive answer out in the open, until then the most we can do is go off of what we have so far and the nature of responses (until the GM incident) seemed to imply that this was something they viewed as acceptable.

[RoninDarkchild]

I agree it very well could be, i myself am one of those people that needs a VPN to properly play this game at times, an issue i have not faced with any other MMO i have played in the last 10 years (FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 counted amongst them)

which honestly is why this thread can very much use a direct Dev or community rep response sooner rather than later so we can get a definitive answer out in the open, until then the most we can do is go off of what we have so far and the nature of responses (until the GM incident) seemed to imply that this was something they viewed as acceptable.

Except nowhere has any tos, or community rep EVER stated "a 3rd party program is ok, as long as it makes playing the game easier." Now that is just making things up :-\

[Ryel]

Except nowhere has any tos, or community rep EVER stated "a 3rd party program is ok, as long as it makes playing the game easier." Now that is just making things up :-\

Well I'm sure they wouldn't say that, it would however be quite helpful if they were to simply reaffirm that any 3rd party tool that does not change or control the FFXIV client in any way is okay.

I believe that would right about clear this whole thing up.

Or they could even go a step further and speed up the official add-on support they've promised in the future so we could have the option of one being added to the game with their approval.

[RoninDarkchild]

Yes It would be helpful. So this topic woudlnt need toe exist.

[RowanLauron]

snip

If he only counted your personal dps then he was in the wrong. People forget and neglect to add in a summoner's pet damage. Typically it is about a third if not more of your personal damage so I'd say in reality you probably did closer to 200+ overall with pet. Besides DoTs aren't perfectly parsed as the logs do not break down each tick of damage. The parser runs a simulation to "estimate" the damage done by taking into consideration your stats, potency of the spell and ticks, and any modifiers like Raging Strikes.

That's how I think it works anyway.

On topic: I can easily look at my logs and do all this by hand, but I guess the clincher is using a program to do it

It's like using a calculator on a math test and getting a fail when your teacher told you not to use it because it needs to be done by hand. The parser may make it easier and be harmless, but if they say no/against the rules as stated in the ToS, then we can't use it.

I use it personally, but not consistently. I don't post it in chat logs nor make a mention I am parsing except for my friends on teamspeak. That way we can compare numbers and figure out what needs to be tweaked. Great tool......just needs to be approved.

[Hekla]

Strange that they'll come in and talk about housing items and other subjects that aren't as important as people being banned/temp-banned.

[Royze]

Strange that they'll come in and talk about housing items and other subjects that aren't as important as people being banned/temp-banned.

"Please look forward to it!"

[DaysMetherlence]

Wonder how long until we can get an answer about this. I know a guy who knows a guy whose sister uses FFXIV-APP and i would not want her to get banned.