Making WAR More Diverse/Fun Again

[Rockaholic]

I'm happy with warriors as it is... for now
Why fix something is not broken. It only leads to plds being unhappy with wars and demand for pld buffs

[Dotsusama]

This will never happen because of the roles set for duties. I'd rather have the separate job option based on MRD like someone else said (Dark Knight, Berserker, etc.)

[Gamemako]

This will never happen because of the roles set for duties. I'd rather have the separate job option based on MRD like someone else said (Dark Knight, Berserker, etc.)

I would agree, so I suspect they're thinking more bonus utility than specific role. For example, you could have a "hybrid" Dark Knight (GLA) who is a DPS with the ability to hold aggro. Not a good tank in general with low eHP and severely limited mitigation abilities (depending on what is done with Rampart and Sentinel), but can do things like hold onto Chirada so the MT doesn't need to eat double WW.

I loved being able to either dps or tank on a whim as the party needed.

This would just be straight up bad. If a tank can DPS, there's no need for DPS.

[Zakalwe]

Yes, Gwaeron, but this is not 1.23. In this new game SE does not permit dual roles for any jobs. In fact, all characters in this game are virtually identical and cannot be even moderately modified. Maybe this will change. Would be nice but it might require major changes to the game's basic class structure.

Although as you and others suggest a DPS job could be developed from the Marauder class. As with Scholars/Summoners however this would mean optimizing stats for one or the other job, or compromising with a 15/15 split of strength/vitality.

[kro]

So the first obvious thing is to allow MRD/WAR to wear offensive gear again. In 1.23, PLD WAR & DRG could all equip the offensive Darklight Armor, with the Heavy variant being reserved for just WAR & PLD. Now it's LNC/DRG only, and that blows. It was fun being a high HP dps in 1.23, and it strikes me as a bit silly that a Job that wields such massive great axes can't double as a dps role, so that's step 1 (Allagan gear too of course).

Have you looked at the stats of DRG and MNK gear? Heavy Allagan Armor and Allagan Cuirass of Maiming have the exact same STR and VIT. The main difference is that the tank gear has way more def and mdef. If Warrior had the option to use both, they would never choose to wear DRG gear.

The other (bigger) change is to rework Unchained. In its current form it simply allows you to deal full damage again for 20 seconds. I'd much rather it be changed to an alternate stance skill similar to Defiance, but with DPS buffs instead of tanking. Instead of gaining wrath with each attack as you do with Defiance, in this new form it gradually builds up over time/as you attack and grants bonus effects to your weaponskills based on how much wrath you have. Enmity is also lowered rather than increased.

Warrior's DPS stance is turning off Defiance. Enmity is reduced and they deal 25% more damage. They can even do it off the GCD unlike PLD. Having another stance similar to Sword Oath that maintains the Wrath mechanic would be cool, but what we have now works pretty well.

People seem to have this perception that Warrior was an amazing DD in 1.0 and is trash in 2.0. The only thing that made WAR amazing in 1.0 was AoE Steel Cyclone. Single target damage output relative to dedicated DD classes like MNK and DRG in 1.0 is pretty similar to 2.0.

Ah, but that's only partially true. For content that required huge and quick enmity generation (Garuda comes to mind), PLD was the goto tank. I also saw PLD used in Aurum Vale most of the time, for Coincounter. WAR did only really excell when there were multiple targets or when the enemies weren't that strong. For weaker stuff like Ifrit, the choice of tank didn't matter much.

Warrior had better burst enmity generation than PLD thanks to Antagonize. It was far more difficult to keep hate as a PLD during a MNK burn of the marlboro compared to WAR. The main reason people used PLD on Garuda was for Riot Blade's Defense Down effect and its ability to self-sustain via Aegis Boon and Holy Succor.

[Gwaeron]

This would just be straight up bad. If a tank can DPS, there's no need for DPS.

The thing is, as mentioned before, that they couldn't tank and DD at the same time.

Warrior had better burst enmity generation than PLD thanks to Antagonize. It was far more difficult to keep hate as a PLD during a MNK burn of the marlboro compared to WAR. The main reason people used PLD on Garuda was for Riot Blade's Defense Down effect and its ability to self-sustain via Aegis Boon and Holy Succor.

Oh, I see. I only did that fight as BLM (post-nerf!), and used to be told that the reason they wanted PLD tanks was because WARs couldn't hold hate in the long run because they lack some of the tools PLD have. In either case, PLD was used for some content. Also I really miss Holy Succor.

[Gamemako]

The thing is, as mentioned before, that they couldn't tank and DD at the same time.

That doesn't matter. Consider this:

DKN: Deals 300 DPS, durable, can tank
DRG: Deals 300 DPS, squishy, can't tank

Who will you take? The mere reliability of DKN DPS alone makes it superior, and the ability to tank at will means you have yet another disincentive to bringing a dedicated DPS. But Gamemako, what if DRG has slightly higher DPS, I hear you say. MNK and DRG would already out-DPS BRD in 2.0, but they were still summarily ignored in favor of 2 BRD groups and essentially brought only for the LB. If a tank could do more damage than it already does, it would start taking over DPS slots because a tank is almost fool-proof. WAR can passively eat WW, DRG can't. PLD can tank any add, BLM can't.

Put simply, WAR and PLD are as close to a DPS as the design can allow. Going higher requires that they lose the ability to be MT.

[Gwaeron]

That doesn't matter. Consider this:

DKN: Deals 300 DPS, durable, can tank
DRG: Deals 300 DPS, squishy, can't tank

ACN: Deals 9000 DPS, can heal.
THM: Deals 9000 DPS, can't heal.

WHM: Heals 9000 eHP per second, can use Cleric Stance and spam holy.
SCH: Heals 9000 eHP per second, can not (natively) use Cleric Stance.

I do not need to consider that, because I have seen it in practice, and it worked. A WAR could not deal as much damage as the DD jobs, but they didn't have to be dead weight for the parts that required only one healer. This is not the case now (I'm looking at you, Titan). They would need specialised gear to do the DD job well (and still not be as good as DRGs, MNKs, BRDs, BLMs). But the option was there, and it is not anymore.

[whiskeybravo]

ACN: Deals 9000 DPS, can heal.
THM: Deals 9000 DPS, can't heal.

WHM: Heals 9000 eHP per second, can use Cleric Stance and spam holy.
SCH: Heals 9000 eHP per second, can not (natively) use Cleric Stance.

Except that SCH can natively use Cleric Stance, being as how they need at least lv15 Conj, and CS is unlocked at lv6. (yes I realize your example is hypothetical)

The only difference (currently) between melee DPS and WAR (or PLD for that matter) is the Class/Job stat allocations. All tank gear has STR, same as melee DPS. All tanks can wear STR accessories. Weapons have the same physical damage. Tanks will never do as much damage due to the attribute points, but they can get close for periods of burst damage. (I'm thinking WAR with Maim and Berserk up, SE debuff, and popping a mega STR potion). The ceiling for tank damage seems just about even to normal DPS damage (obviously DPS has a higher damage ceiling for burst situations)

[Gamemako]

SMN: Deals X DPS, can't heal to save its life.
BLM: Deals X DPS, can't heal to save its life.

WHM: Heals 310 ST potency per second, 136.67 AoE potency per second, can use Cleric Stance and spam holy.
SCH: Heals 340 ST potency per second, 120 AoE potency per second, can use Cleric Stance and nuke with DoTs.

Take note of the corrections. THM is no weaker at healing than ACN, having infinite MP and access to the exact same healing spell (Physick) as ACN. All beside the point, because at endgame, SMN and BLM can't heal jack either despite both having Physick. They lack burst heals, AoE heals, and the MND to even try. Furthermore, Shadow Flare + Miasma II + Miasma + BioII + Bio + Aero are nearly as much potency as Holy spam, plus SCH has superior ST DPS which doesn't maul the caster's MP pool.

There is nothing at this time which is remotely like what you have suggested. There are no DPS jobs which can heal or tank effectively, and there are not wide gulfs between existing jobs of the same role. Titan Egi cannot hold Chirada against your healers' enmity. BLM heals an absolutely pathetic amount with Physick due to the complete lack of MND on i80+ gear. Offering even the individual utility of subbing in as minor add tank or something would be unprecedented.