Enough

[Heat]

The real problem is that you have 2 great systems (PF,DF) that is not fully optimized for the content that we have.

You could easily obtain full DL gear ilvl 70 which 90% of the players have ATM, and don’t know most of the strategies to beat titan HM and above.
And for you to be lucky enough to get in a group throw PF that most of them know the fight is less than 25%.

Not only this, but the game is unforgiving when one or two players make a mistake, you have a high percentage of failing if that happens.
Even if you get in a group that is most of them is fully geared throw PF and one or two people didn’t do the fight before, and the group don’t disband after 3-4 tries, trying to do the fight (which most of the time disband after 2 tries) you still can’t do it.

I think that because a lot of people started to cry in the forums that the game is easy and not fun, SE went all the way to satisfy them and ignored the rest of the casual players that don’t have the time to do a single fight 20+ times to learn how to do it.

Or they made it hard enough to keep them supped longer.

In both cases this is a bad design, and will backfire at them, as all I’m seeing is people quitting because they can’t do this and can’t do that, and some that just log in once or twice a week to do quests and cap myth.

[HeroSamson]

I know the frustrations my titan Hard mode experience was a nightmare, I didn't wanna pay anyone I wanted to do it on duty finder.

I eventually won 1 win and 30 loss record around 30k in repairs people leaving after first loss, people fighting over people not dodging, people vote kicking because someone doesn't follow instructions.

I know this there is gonna be a huge group of people that's just gonna say I am not doing titan HM ever again then the ones who need help will be stuck and eventually quit because people demand you to be Well geared for DPS and cut alla gear out cause you wont get a coil run due to people being anal about it.

[TomTom1968]

I bet half of the people here stating how easy the fight is got carried through it while lying dead on the ground because it was so easy.

[Kyras]

I bet half of the people here stating how easy the fight is got carried through it while lying dead on the ground because it was so easy.

While I don't know if I would call the fight easy, it isn't a truly hard fight, unforgiving yes, but not hard. And that's coming from a SCH who made it through the entire fight without dying when I cleared it on my 9th attempt or so.

The fight could certainly be made more forgiving though. Having P5 take way too long because 2/8 of your party got hit by landslide is a little cruel.

EDIT: The iLvl for DF could stand to be increased a bit though. Every time I saw a DPS with 3k HP I knew I was gonna have a bad time.

[Kaelah]

The only way I see them making Titan easier is to remove plumes and landslide, then the fight would be so easy it's not even worth it. I like the challenge, it took me a week and a half to do Titan HM on my WHM. (I know it takes some people much longer.) When we failed it was usually due to a dps not avoiding something before the heart phase so we didn't have the dps for heart. I hated Titan but I wouldn't change it, I was so pleased when I finally beat it~ Didn't get that F*** YEAH! feeling with Ifrit and Garuda.

Also, if you are DF for Titan you are doing it wrong... :P PF or FC it, must higher success rate. DF groups for me always sucked and never made it past heart, PF groups would at least get past the heart. DF for practice in my opinion.

[Dhex]

The only way I see them making Titan easier is to remove plumes and landslide, then the fight would be so easy it's not even worth it.

I disagree;

one-shot mechanics are just the route the dev. team decided to take. Consider the following:

Weight of the Land: Reduce the radius and damage of Weight of the Land, add a status marker +10% Damage taken from Weight of the Land per status marker; up to 3 stacks.

Landslide: Stuns target for 15s. No knock-back.

Turn up bomb damage; add lower damage Mountain Busters before, but not during, the heart phase.

What this does - Landslide dodging is still important but it doesn't simply one-shot you and remove you from the battle entirely. A stunned healer on Mountain Buster? Ouch; tank is boned if they're not quick with a CD. A stunned DPS during heart phase? Mmm dat party gonna eat a Fury; unless they compensate with skill! A stun during the bomb phase? Aw $#%@ son you so dead, but it's okay you can get a raise!

WoL becomes more forgiving - players can space out and even eat a plume if they have to. Healers know who to keep an eye on because of the stacking debuff... etc.


TL;DR

It can still be engaging without being as punishing by changing certain elements.

[AdvancedWind]

-

But without a few one shot mechanics you greatly reduce a fight difficulty. It's hard to make something that doesn't harshly punish mistakes but remains challenging. Your example sounds good on paper, but would actually make Titan easier than Garuda because it allows too many mistakes. Fight would simply become "don't be stunned by the easiest move to avoid".

WoTl change would make it more forgiving and easy to avoid than Eruption. Mountain buster change would eliminate the only challenge a healer has during the fight.

Being punished due to mistakes, specially ones that are, let's face it, trivial (move from bad thing), is what makes fights harder on any game that allows the player to evade enemy attacks by moving. If you can be hit by nearly anything and not have that much impact outside of very specific situations, you might as well have the enemy just drop dead on engage. There's a reason the vast majority of the really damaging and dangerous moves in the game also happen to have the largest cast times, the most predictable patterns and simplest AoEs, with very few exceptions.

Heck, current Titan is actually not even as harsh as people make it out to be, the only real punishing move is landslide, and it also happens to be the easiest to avoid (it's a narrow line AoE that will most likely only target a single person) and has a big tell before the Aoe marker even shows up. Bombs doesn't kill you, you can eat 2 WoLs depending on your job, Heart dies easily with limit break, mountain buster is infrequent, etc. A slight overgear (ilv75ish) trivializes every mechanic but landslide.

[Dhex]

-

The point was to show how a fight can be made less punishing.

Designing fights to take several attempts that requires players to be engaged - without the need to fall back on the crutch of one-shot mechanics.

Titan HM is not hard in iL75, and it's not hard in general; but it is designed so that if you're attempting it in lower gear setups that a single mistake means an eventual wipe. That's both punishing and frustrating - which should inspire you to do better; to seek out better gear. If you've got players that still can't clear it even after hours of attempting it, gearing, buying consumables - because of lag or one shots - it leads to a very discouraged feeling - a disenfranchisement with the game.

Yoshi-P has said before; older content will become easier as new content is added. You will likely see Titan HM become less difficult eventually - but if it's not soon enough for casual/less apt/handicapped/less-than perfectly connected players to beat it then it really doesn't make a difference. Titan EX is out - CT is out and another set of new content is being talked about already.

So, why is Titan HM still a thing for so many people?

[IndigoHawk]

I agree with OP that fights like Titan HM are too hard for the average gamer. The fights aren't too hard for skilled and coordinated gamers, but they are too hard for pugs in DF. This creates a frustrating experience.

There's no satisfaction in beating a fight like Titan HM on DF. It's like grinding for a drop. If I keep trying, I'll finally get decent teammates and win. That's not skill; it's persistence. I'd rather have easier content in DF so that everyone is having fun instead of beating their heads against a wall. Or make the fights easier to carry people, so that it's not so critical that all 8 people are good. Or move the harder fights out of DF and make them obviously for FCs.

Please tune the difficulty of DF fights so that pugs have a decent chance of completing the content.

[Axidrain]

lol. titan HM? really?