Summoner / Scholar, In Math and Practice

[SokoSplat]

So I was a bit bored and figured I'd try to analyze summoner to determine SCH vs SMN DPS mechanics.

It's extremely lengthy (about 4 pages) but can be found here: http://sollabs.net/media/xiv/ffxiv_s..._breakdown.txt
I'd post here, but forums don't like 15k character posts .

After running through about 150-200 mobs in SCH and SMN I came to the conclusion that the DPS breakdown between the two was almost on par (<50 DPS variation in potency calcs) when including a pet using xiv world examples (in combat between the two in dungeons and individual mob fights) the variation between the two became even less noticeable.


At the bottom I added 2 mechanic changes (tri-disaster, a 4 part breakdown of pet mechanic changes) that would shift the DPS back in favor of the SMN vs SCH and also move SMN slightly lower than my MNK/DRG in terms of dps.

[SokoSplat]

Oh, and I haven't slept in like 2 days so if there is some f'd up math or a suggestion that makes more sense... let me know and I'll fix it when I wake up.

[Seobit]

You forgot to include raging strikes (especially coupled with contagion). Also if you were to assume that a scholar and summoner will always have roughly the same personal dps, then as your gear gets better then the dps difference becomes greater from the pet. For example at ilvl90 a summoner's garuda will do a little over 70 dps, which is substantial.

[Typrix]

The lack of accuracy in scholar gear will severely mess with scholar DPS in end game content.

[SokoSplat]

Thanks for the input Seobit. However, I excluded raging strikes and contagion on purpose.
The goal was to show a baseline of SCH <-> SMN in a skillset.
RS is nice, I have it bound to bio II and use it religiously on SMN, so don't take it as me saying not to use them but while it sounds like a pretty substantial boost (since you can tick it off pre-dot)
the output of a RS vs non RS is not as appealing as a 10% perma CS:
w/o RS:
92,95,88,91,88,87
bio: 541 (30.1)
w/RS:
104,113,109,104,104,106
bio: 640 (35.6)

RS comes out to be a lower end version of cleric stances native 10% damage increase. CS is perma 10%, RS is 20% over 20 sec 180s cooldown.

As for pet DPS with gear:
I unequipped all but omnilex, summoned garuda
Attacked a lightning sprite in mor dhora with these results (first 9 wind blade attacks):
int: 302 (no gear)
windblade:
123,117,120,125,122,118,126,118,121
total damage: 1090
recast: 2.94
41.2 dps
int: 437 (dl gear):
180,190,183,194,185,176,191,194,188
total damage: 1681
recast: 2.92
63.96 dps

int dif between IL70/90 : 50 (so like 10.242 dps on a low level mob). [only includes 1 ring] (does not include zenith weapon, also there might be other factors to determining pet damage that I am unaware of).
*edit* other pet skills are not included because of their high recast [aerial slash] and shockwave not casting unless mob is close

Contagion is a whole other bag of worms. The principle is the same, but the damage variation depends on your GCD usage during (depending how fast you spam ruin II it changes the impact of how much damage contagion really does increase). The math for contagion comes out pretty high if a fight lasts that long but in longer fights bosses often disappear (and don't take damage from dots even though their timers still tick down) and the several events that come into play really hurt the potential benefits of contagion. In the end the variables become somewhat improbable to determine proper damage without substantial analysis [things like bane, for example can throw the numbers way off].

[Exolithus]

Thanks for the input Seobit. However, I excluded raging strikes and contagion on purpose.
The goal was to show a baseline of SCH <-> SMN in a skillset.

Basically you compare a SCH WITH his Crossclass Skills with a SMN WITHOUT his Crossclass skills AND his pet to show a baseline of SCH <-> SMN?

If you dont include RS and Garuda you cant include CS, thats stupid, sorry

edit: if you bane extended Dots from garuda you will get even higher dps rates because SMN can ruin / ice II spam even longer and uses less aeatherstacks than the SCH. Aero isnt spread by Bane so you need to cast it on every other mob bevor you can even start aoe'ing

The idea is nice but you miss way to much things about SMN and cant compare them because of that.

Things like Garuda on Obey deals more dmg than Garuda on Sic
Extendend Dots allow you to cast more Ruins without recasting your dots
Extended dots together with bane is way more powerfull than SCH normal dots bane'd
SCH deals way less dmg in big mob groups because of Enkindle and Garudas AoE attack
You ignored the fact that SMN has 2 pet buffs wich increases the pet dmg even more, SCH cant use even 1 of these buffs for DPS
Raging Strike + Extended Dots + Bane = Untouchable for SCH in terms of DPS
SCH is missing a lot in ACC because they focus more on PIE, turn 5 you are a useless DPS because you cant hit anything

You just cant compare them 1on1, you try to dps with a class made for healing...thats like i would use my BLM for healing because i have unlimited Mana.
If you really want to compare them, then use both of them to the full potential and not 90% SCH against 50% SMN and be like "SCH is the better dps because he deals the same dmg as a 50% SMN"

[T0rin]

Basically you compare a SCH WITH his Crossclass Skills with a SMN WITHOUT his Crossclass skills AND his pet to show a baseline of SCH <-> SMN?

If you dont include RS and Garuda you cant include CS, thats stupid, sorry

Whole-heartedly agree. Why would you not include RS, just because it is not 'on all the time', like CS is? It is a cross-class damage buff, it should be included in the baseline, if CS is.

Also, the math included Garuda's Sic rotation, which is awful. Nobody who knows what they are doing uses Sic. Everyone uses Obey, which results in significantly higher DPS, because Garuda is not wasting time casting sub-par DPS abilities that you don't want or need. And relying on 'getting all your buffs off before Garuda hits Contagion in the Sic rotation' is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Not to mention, it completely falls apart by the time Contagion is available the second time around.

[NeonC]

Does Sch Gear give about equal Mind as Smn Int? I would figure that Sch would do very similar damage with the 10% bonus from cleric stance.

[Deifact]

With cleric stance SCH can do pretty well. In terms of utility SCH beats smn. I wish smn had egi specific party buffs so they had more utility than DPS only

[Shamirah]

Of course SCH will beat SMN in term of utility... they're healers duh.

SCH won't be a viable dps "class" until.... never. No accuracy.

And SMN, for a DPS class has quite a few nice skills that brings utility.