Watching content before actually doing it?

[Axidrain]

Problem here is, this isn't related to watching video, this is just a bunch of liars trying to get carried, and it will always show and I'm sure you like anyone else that actually have the full clear experience can tell with these players. The issue there is that they are flat out lying to an entire group of people, video does not count as experience and anyone joining a farm group like that should be kicked and not waste peoples time who are there for farming with other experienced players for loot and not just a win. Not to say being new is bad, but lying to get into group with players who are trying to get gear so you can squeeze out a win if possible is not cool.

agreed. its a real pain the butt

[NefGP]

Yep, getting real sick of endgame PF groups not allowing anyone who hasn't already won the thing once before join.

Well that's just great, how do you expect people to get experience in an event if you never let them do it? And no, having an FC is not the magic be-all end-all answer (I do have one but it's not overly large and we're not all always doing the same thing - god forbid I be able to just try something with other people.)

[Avenol]

What I would do then, is form your own. Check the new player friendly or whatever selection. Check it out, learn the fight, and win! Folks are free to host their own runs with their own critera. They may not have a lot of time, and don't want to have to teach someone a fight, so they want only folks that have done it before.

I like to host my own to help teach folks fights in my downtime, and always try to help those that need like a chimera/hydra/titan HM...instead of getting frustrated, be proactive and be a part of the solution, pay it forward!

[Licus]

both camps have reasonable PoV:

Some people enjoy learning first hand and developing strats.

Some people enjoy being efficient and prepared.

The key is to find like minded people to play with. Don't assume random people in random groups (or pugs) have the same gaming values that you have. Personally, I rather be more efficient, so I only play with like minded people. I don't bash people that like to go in blindly, but I don't have to play with them either.

[Jilse]

There is a whole different level between "know what you are doing" and knowing how to play the game. I could care less if people watch videos if they can see red and dodge. Simple as that. Those who made the videos did not know what they were doing before they entered. Personally, I have gotten farther in content with duty finder with people who are learning than in party finder with supposed people who know what they are doing. Basically, because the whole mindset is off. Impatient players who expect to win every time, and have 0 deaths. There are usually three of those to every one person who is "being carried" as some people call it. Learning a run, and being carried are two different things.

This being said, people who are dead set against watching videos are stupid as well. Entering an instance is like entering a battle, or more pertaining to this situation, a sporting event. Team A does not just run in to fight Team B without doing a little research into the challenge they are about to endure. This comes in many forms, but one of the most prominent is watching videos of Team B in action, to develop a strategy to win the game.

[Feyniphia]

Seeing a vid allows you to see, but experiencing it will always be better.

[Dark-Saviour]

Those trash packs before bosses? There's no point. Bad design just to waste people's time. We want only bosses. New content that gives lower item level? There's no point. Devs must be out of their minds to expect us to have fun without rewards!

This is one of the things that kind of irks me.

In my experience, there's always this subset of the community that will point at the hardest content and call it babby-mode while demanding more and more of a 'challenge' since too high a percentage of the player-base has become capable of doing everything.
If you make the claim that they only want something harder with new rewards because they like to ensure that others don't have what they do, they'll repeatedly insist that it's not about the rewards and they solely want something more challenging.
If the developer then puts out harder content without any new reward, the response suddenly becomes, "WTF? That's retarded! Why would I suffer through something so hard if I don't get anything for it?"

:-/

That said, as for the main issue being discussed in this topic, the biggest issue in my eyes is the game design. When you have this whole 'carrot-on-a-stick' style of linear progression with all the rewards back-loaded, and then make the content such that it requires other players to do well, it just invites the mentaility that they're nothing but tools (and a 'necessary evil') for each person to accomplish their goals.
It's partially why I prefer the whole idea of little vertical progression, 'rewards' being distributed throughout the content, and levels/encounters that encourage 'playing alongside others' rather than completely relying on them. :-\

Edit: Also... I'm not fond of how pervasive wikis and video sites have become for these games in general. The fact that devs can now just assume you can just go find the info out of the game tends to lend itself towards lazy design with things being poorly implemented or described in-game. It hasn't been much of an issue here so far, but for other MMOs I've played, it's become a major annoyance...

[Elim]

The people who are saying "we don't need to know anything besides how to dodge red circles" make me sigh. No, not every single fight is simply dodge the red circle. Sometimes there are attacks you need to move out of as a tank that don't have red circles, sometimes you need to have groups split up in two and and stack, sometimes adds need to be faced a certain way or placed at a certain area otherwise you wipe, sometimes certain adds need to die in a certain amount of time, etc, etc. You can still wipe if you go in blindly and "know how to avoid red circles."

Sure, wiping x amount of times to figure out a fight might be fun to you, but not everyone sees it that way. Not everyone has time to whittle away doing it. Not going in blindly doesn't make someone a "bad", likewise going in blindly doesn't either. It's preference.

If you want to demand it be one way or another, I suggest making your own party finder group.

[Amiarah]

I totally agree with this. And I try to refuse to watch videos, but falling for the ppl bashing me if I don´t, I have to admit I do... I do miss the good old days when tactics were EXPLAINED and EXPERIENCED and not watched on youtube. If one person is new, they should be able to say so at start and the rest of the 7 that knows the fight shouldn´t really have a hard time teaching it to him/her tbh. If you fail at that, then maybe you should play something with less online time. I really really miss the time when you could meet new people and not being afraid that this or that person will insult you, knowing full well, they know nothing about you.

[Lumiin]

if ur going at instances blind and failing, then expect to be verbally abused.

Lol wut? You have serious issues dude. Because you never died to anything right? Dying over and over on a video game with no death penalty is not a good reason for verbally abusing people. Even if there were a death penalty it's still not acceptable. Explain to that person what to do. All you really need to say is when to stack because its obvious they should dodge everything. Or what heart/plume/add to kill first.
Don't want to type? Add em to your TS/Vent/Mum/etc server, add em to a Skype call so you can call the moves out. In my old LS when I first joined they invited me to a skype call to explain when to stack,etc.

People like you are ridiculous and I'm willing to bet this easy mode hello kitty clone is the first game you ever made it to end game in.