Watching content before actually doing it?

[gadzi_h]

B) You aren't wasting 3/7/23 other peoples time by not knowing what to do in a single player game. By refusing to look up basic strategy and mechanics you are basically saying that your fun is more important than 3/7/23 other people's time, which is outright rude.

I always see this wasting time excuse being use. Hate to tell you this but playing a game is a waste of time. If you want to be productive go back to work and log some overtime hours. There was a thing we had when I was growing up called patience, it worked wonders. And there was this other thing called being help full which really set you apart from other people who were generally referred to as being selfish. That being said if you're of the selfish I have no time for this mindset maybe single player is a better option for you or even an "Aint Nobody Got Time for That" server transfer option could be added in the future.


As for me I am going to continue helping the players in the game I love and try my hardest to strengthen the community.

[Djeserit]

I always see this wasting time excuse being use. Hate to tell you this but playing a game is a waste of time. If you want to be productive go back to work and log some overtime hours. There was a thing we had when I was growing up called patience, it worked wonders. And there was this other thing called being help full which really set you apart from other people who were generally referred to as being selfish. That being said if you're of the selfish I have no time for this mindset maybe single player is a better option for you or even an "Aint Nobody Got Time for That" server transfer option could be added in the future.


As for me I am going to continue helping the players in the game I love and try my hardest to strengthen the community.

I help people all the time.

...people on my own server, who I plan/hope to play with again in the future. Random duty finder cross-server guy #8764764 doesn't matter to me at all.

As for wasting time, of course games are meant to waste time, but that doesn't mean that it isn't rude to turn something that takes 15 minutes into something that takes an hour because you choose to be selfishly ignorant of fight mechanics. Especially when it would take you 5 minutes to watch a video/read a breakdown of the fight.

By virtue of being a hobby/entertainment, video games are (should be) the lowest on the priority list for most people, which means they have limited time in which to do things. If I have an hour to do CT + wait in queue, and get stuck in a group with someone who refuses to understand mechanics beforehand and keeps causing wipes, it is perfectly within my right to be upset that 1 selfish individual is making my goal for the hour undoable.

[gadzi_h]

If I have an hour to do CT + wait in queue, and get stuck in a group with someone who refuses to understand mechanics beforehand and keeps causing wipes, it is perfectly within my right to be upset that 1 selfish individual is making my goal for the hour undoable.

Now we do see eye to eye on that one. My first CT run I didn't watch a video and we didn't wipe once. Every other time I have been in using DF it has been a total <snip> show.

My main issue with the videos is there is always some derp saying "hey this is me ... look how cool I am" for 2 min. Then you get the meat and potatoes. I honestly would rather read bullet points and look at positional diagrams similar to a football playbook.

I am in a unique position where I have about 4 hours a day to play so to be honest I don't mind taking my time learning and teaching. But there is something more exciting about the experience than the spoiler. When they added the new content in 2.1, for instance Haukke Manor, the bosses AoE had an exciting oh <snip> factor. Being spoon fed everything is just boring for me.

That being said, I wish the mechanics were more random self adapting AI, where real skill in playing would come into play. Rather than this easy learn mechanics = win.

[Anapingofness]

Being new to a fight/dungeon/ect does not mean one is carried by the rest of the group as some suggest.

Yes, some effort should be made by the newbie but I find that the "experienced" players tend to be... well, not very forgiving. People just wanna get their stuff done and move on, forget community building yo- I'm most important! My needs! MY TIME!! MY NEEDS!!!! DON'T YOU NOOBS GET IT?!?!!!11111oneoneoneone

Sarcasm aside, it does cut both ways. Both parties have to make an effort and both parties need to show respect for each others time and the people behind the character.

Personally, I will always ask for highlights of a fight/dungeon or I will at least look it up on wiki. Video guides tend to irritate me so I avoid watching them.
Still, the best teacher is when one enters the fight and actually does it. I usually catch on pretty quickly and am open to suggestions for improvement.

That being said, whenever I'm doing a fight or dungeon for the first time I try to tip the scales in my favor by making a premade group. At the very least I try to fill in as many spots as I can with people who won't mind a wipe or three if need be. That also means that the few pug members that do join my group also need to be prepared for a few wipes or maybe even a rough run without throwing a fit like a petulant child.

[Grailer]

I watched a few guides but TBH you don't really need them as long as people are willing to offer some advice .

But as a tank it is usually better to watch video because you are basically standing nakid for everyone to see you make a fool of yourself failing .

[Zfz]

I think it's a result of the modern fast-food gaming design. Every action you do in a game is more or less directly tied to some reward.

Those trash packs before bosses? There's no point. Bad design just to waste people's time. We want only bosses. New content that gives lower item level? There's no point. Devs must be out of their minds to expect us to have fun without rewards!

And as game companies bow to players' wishes, now players demand even more. Bosses should be one-shot, or you're wasting time! And this time round, we point our guns at each other, not at the game companies anymore. Stop wasting my time! We exclaim. Hence RNG is taken out of encounters.

Gaming isn't about the process anymore, it's all about the tangible reward at the end.

That is also why we go for the simplest, easiest tactics all the time. Rush tactics. Skipping trash. Enrage tactics. To us, the game consists of just that coffer with the piece of shiny loot. Be damned if you make me move even an inch more than I absolutely have to, to get to open that coffer. Be damned if you waste my time! I wish all of you can be replaced by NPCs who bow to my every wish!

If you want to waste my time, you go back and play your single player games! Multi-player means doing your best to serve my interests!



....sorry, ran out of steam. It's hard to write anything meaningful with an empty stomach it seems.

[Nabiri]

Gaming isn't about the process anymore, it's all about the tangible reward at the end.

That is also why we go for the simplest, easiest tactics all the time. Rush tactics. Skipping trash. Enrage tactics. To us, the game consists of just that coffer with the piece of shiny loot. Be damned if you make me move even an inch more than I absolutely have to, to get to open that coffer. Be damned if you waste my time! I wish all of you can be replaced by NPCs who bow to my every wish!

If you want to waste my time, you go back and play your single player games! Multi-player means doing your best to serve my interests!

I'm still unaccustomed to the selfish/rush-mentality of this game.
Very few people seem to have time to offer even a minute of advice.

I came from FFXI, and I'm used to a community where people help each other and want to improve together.
If someone was new we gave them a few tips. If we failed we tried again and offered more advice, until we succeeded - together. We wanted the whole team to win. Communication was important, (unlike XIV where people seem quiet and expectant that everyone knows everything).
In 8 years of playing don't remember ever being in a group where someone was kicked because they didn't know what they were doing - it was unheard of.
It was all about having fun together, not only with linkshells, but among strangers.. It wasn't all "ME! ME! ME! HURRY! YOU'RE WASTING MY TIME!" I never really worried about a reward because I was always enjoying myself.
I must say, I miss the camaraderie and team work of 'the good old days.'

-

I can't say I blame the selfish/rush-mentality on the players alone though. I believe that the game was designed in such a way that it was bound to happen.. If people have to do dungeons 10s or 100s of times to get the gear that they want, it's an environment that will breed impatience.
(Not to mention, the reason I hate dungeons..)

[Dark-Saviour]

Those trash packs before bosses? There's no point. Bad design just to waste people's time. We want only bosses. New content that gives lower item level? There's no point. Devs must be out of their minds to expect us to have fun without rewards!

This is one of the things that kind of irks me.

In my experience, there's always this subset of the community that will point at the hardest content and call it babby-mode while demanding more and more of a 'challenge' since too high a percentage of the player-base has become capable of doing everything.
If you make the claim that they only want something harder with new rewards because they like to ensure that others don't have what they do, they'll repeatedly insist that it's not about the rewards and they solely want something more challenging.
If the developer then puts out harder content without any new reward, the response suddenly becomes, "WTF? That's retarded! Why would I suffer through something so hard if I don't get anything for it?"

:-/

That said, as for the main issue being discussed in this topic, the biggest issue in my eyes is the game design. When you have this whole 'carrot-on-a-stick' style of linear progression with all the rewards back-loaded, and then make the content such that it requires other players to do well, it just invites the mentaility that they're nothing but tools (and a 'necessary evil') for each person to accomplish their goals.
It's partially why I prefer the whole idea of little vertical progression, 'rewards' being distributed throughout the content, and levels/encounters that encourage 'playing alongside others' rather than completely relying on them. :-\

Edit: Also... I'm not fond of how pervasive wikis and video sites have become for these games in general. The fact that devs can now just assume you can just go find the info out of the game tends to lend itself towards lazy design with things being poorly implemented or described in-game. It hasn't been much of an issue here so far, but for other MMOs I've played, it's become a major annoyance...

[synaesthetic]

Because it's soul-crushing to wipe dozens of times over and over again because people don't know what the hell they're doing, especially after you've already cleared it.

[Musashidon]

omg this again wasting peoples time on a game which is meant to waste time. the logic i love these so much <3

you can't waste time on something that is suppose to pass and waste time.