The new system and the old system. Constrained.

[Shai]

So now you just hit them a bunch get 3000 tp and burst out 3 weapon skills, doing the exact same thing as before but without the waiting. Wow. limitations!?!?!?

Did you even bother to read what he wrote? It's not the same.

Auto-Attack won't be function if you run out of range of a Mob WS. You lose out on TP & Damage.

Previously (currently) you refill stamina while you're doing this so it has an advantage when you turn around and move back in range.

You're a smart person most of the time, Viion. You can see there's a difference. Stop rushing this thread so aggressively. There's pros and cons to both situations and some people prefer one to the other (gasp). It's no big deal. It's not like we (the current & old system supporters) are going to get what we want anyway. We're just exchanging ideas.

[viion]

Did you even bother to read what he wrote? It's not the same.

Auto-Attack won't be function if you run out of range of a Mob WS. You lose out on TP & Damage.

Previously (currently) you refill stamina while you're doing this so it has an advantage when you turn around and move back in range.

You're a smart person most of the time, Viion. You can see there's a difference. Stop rushing this thread so aggressively. There's pros and cons to both situations and some people prefer one to the other (gasp). It's no big deal. It's not like we (the current & old system supporters) are going to get what we want anyway. We're just exchanging ideas.

So long as your in battle you dont lose TP and if you watched the video you will see that the pug runs through the goblin to do additional attacks from the rear, oh yeh and not losing all his TP (or any if I remember).

Why would you run out of range, you dont even need to do that to refil the bar you just... do nothing.............

Confused the fuck out here why you got to be running around like a headless chicken.

Not to mention if your so obsessed to run out of range to get the guage up, you cant hit it no matter how much you spam 1....................

Infact removing guage means you dont need to run out like a moron to store it up, you can just go straight into w/e you had planned =)

[Physic]

So long as your in battle you dont lose TP and if you watched the video you will see that the pug runs through the goblin to do additional attacks from the rear, oh yeh and not losing all his TP (or any if I remember).

Why would you run out of range, you dont even need to do that to refil the bar you just... do nothing.............

Confused the fuck out here why you got to be running around like a headless chicken.

Not to mention if your so obsessed to run out of range to get the guage up, you cant hit it no matter how much you spam 1....................

Infact removing guage means you dont need to run out like a moron to store it up, you can just go straight into w/e you had planned =)

in a cool down tp system, any time you are not gaining tp, or using your cool down skills when available you are lowering your dps.

Where before it was always worthwhile to dodge a bad WS, now its a question of is it worth it to lose AA damage and the tp generated from being close, and as well the fact that you may not use the Cooldown skill as soon as its available.

There are advantages that a stamina system has to fighting depth, but its just not what some people want, whatever, but its not the same system.

[viion]

in a cool down tp system, any time you are not gaining tp, or using your cool down skills when available you are lowering your dps.

Where before it was always worthwhile to dodge a bad WS, now its a question of is it worth it to lose AA damage and the tp generated from being close, and as well the fact that you may not use the Cooldown skill as soon as its available.

There are advantages that a stamina system has to fighting depth, but its just not what some people want, whatever, but its not the same system.

Man what are you on about lol, giving me a head storm that im just going to go point to point.

Your first point is practically saying when ur not using ur skills or gaining tp ur lowering ur DPS, but the current system relies on u always hitting attack which can be slow simetimes when u gotta scroll across 30 slots, and ofc again it relies on your timing which still has a delay due to the stamina, the new system does this all automatically to the exact millisecond even if your picking your nose or jacking off your DPS aint gunna change but be better than before.

And then you go on about dodging, if you're locked on you can just press left or right and you dodge, you'd always face the target due to lock on and always be in range, also if you dont do lockon like me, then run through the mob, its always better evasive than running the direction the mob is facing... Also you wont lose TP this way.

You dont know how far AA range is, if its like XI it's pretty damn good, infact it'd be same range as you can do now on XIV with your manual attack, granted only mages would really get affected but im fine with that, i'd rather be doing other stuff when its fixed.

There is absolute no advantages to stamina at all, its just another restriction.

Because you need
- The right MP/TP
- The cooldown to be 0
- The stamina amount

Now they removing the Stamina
wow now... now you only have 2 restrictions, aint that a joy...

Sorry for the insulting sarcasm but it needs to be said.

People think this illusion of being able to do lots of skills at once, you cant, you still have to wait for a cooldown, and saying that will be higher is just arguing over make belief crap. We have a video right there infront of us, and cooldowns look fine, nothings changed, all fine and dandy.

The way I see it, is before I had 3 different skills I want to do, all cost 1000 TP but because they each use 50% stamina I couldn't chain them i'd have to do 2 then just wait it out. But the new system lets me do them because it removes the stamina restriction.

Then whilst I was deciding which skills to use and planning my strategy the system was helping me out by attacking and gaining me the TP so I can focus on the important things. It would gain TP and be a faster DPS than me because I play controller and I'd hit Light stab and then I might wanna do slow which is on pad 2 so i gotta switch then maybe Poison so I switch to Pad 3 and then back up to light stab and im hitting buttons all over place and its like navigating a flipping TV box set.

I want to play a game, not a UI. Theres no reason for me to keep spamming 1 1 1 1 over and over, its no different if it does it for me. Do you walk everywhere or drive? Do you light some matches in the garden and prop up pig on wood and cook your own bacon or use a gril from the bacon the farmer made and you bought at the market.

Everything you can possible degrade on the new battle system you can already degrade in the current system, with the additional downgrade of it has a Stamina restriction currently.

Um. You're not running around like a headless chicken.
You're making a calculated effort to avoid conal or circular AOE.
It's incidentally quite easy in this game. I liked that, wanted it expanded on even.

Purposely moving about and not attacking allows stamina to recharge. It was a direct answer to the question "When would you purposely be doing nothing to allow stamina to recharge?" or something to that effect. Sleep & Bind also come to mind.

Read my post above because if you're losing TP and running so far the mob loses battle, then yes you're running like a headless chicken and should stop playing this game because you suck so bad at it, you can easily dodge with facing the mob every second. And so what? You're now upset that a bar is not being filled up so you can do more stuff because the bar restricts you where as now the new system has no bar and you dont need to wait for it you can just go right ahead and do your skills LIKE SHOWN IN THE VIDEO BY THE PUGILIST ZOMG

Sadly I know either one of you is going to come back with some crazy gesture that it offers depth for some lame excuse like "its an addition!", if your gf's addition was hiv would you do it? but sadly I has to sleep, so this thread can die like every other thread does. Except awesome ones like 1-to-50

[Physic]

Man what are you on about lol, giving me a head storm that im just going to go point to point.

Your first point is practically saying when ur not using ur skills or gaining tp ur lowering ur DPS, but the current system relies on u always hitting attack which can be slow simetimes when u gotta scroll across 30 slots, and ofc again it relies on your timing which still has a delay due to the stamina, the new system does this all automatically to the exact millisecond even if your picking your nose or jacking off your DPS aint gunna change but be better than before.

And then you go on about dodging, if you're locked on you can just press left or right and you dodge, you'd always face the target due to lock on and always be in range, also if you dont do lockon like me, then run through the mob, its always better evasive than running the direction the mob is facing... Also you wont lose TP this way.

You dont know how far AA range is, if its like XI it's pretty damn good, infact it'd be same range as you can do now on XIV with your manual attack, granted only mages would really get affected but im fine with that, i'd rather be doing other stuff when its fixed.

There is absolute no advantages to stamina at all, its just another restriction.

Because you need
- The right MP/TP
- The cooldown to be 0
- The stamina amount

Now they removing the Stamina
wow now... now you only have 2 restrictions, aint that a joy...

Sorry for the insulting sarcasm but it needs to be said.

People think this illusion of being able to do lots of skills at once, you cant, you still have to wait for a cooldown, and saying that will be higher is just arguing over make belief crap. We have a video right there infront of us, and cooldowns look fine, nothings changed, all fine and dandy.

The way I see it, is before I had 3 different skills I want to do, all cost 1000 TP but because they each use 50% stamina I couldn't chain them i'd have to do 2 then just wait it out. But the new system lets me do them because it removes the stamina restriction.

Then whilst I was deciding which skills to use and planning my strategy the system was helping me out by attacking and gaining me the TP so I can focus on the important things. It would gain TP and be a faster DPS than me because I play controller and I'd hit Light stab and then I might wanna do slow which is on pad 2 so i gotta switch then maybe Poison so I switch to Pad 3 and then back up to light stab and im hitting buttons all over place and its like navigating a flipping TV box set.

I want to play a game, not a UI. Theres no reason for me to keep spamming 1 1 1 1 over and over, its no different if it does it for me. Do you walk everywhere or drive? Do you light some matches in the garden and prop up pig on wood and cook your own bacon or use a gril from the bacon the farmer made and you bought at the market.

Everything you can possible degrade on the new battle system you can already degrade in the current system, with the additional downgrade of it has a Stamina restriction currently.




Read my post above because if you're losing TP and running so far the mob loses battle, then yes you're running like a headless chicken and should stop playing this game because you suck so bad at it, you can easily dodge with facing the mob every second. And so what? You're now upset that a bar is not being filled up so you can do more stuff because the bar restricts you where as now the new system has no bar and you dont need to wait for it you can just go right ahead and do your skills LIKE SHOWN IN THE VIDEO BY THE PUGILIST ZOMG

Sadly I know either one of you is going to come back with some crazy gesture that it offers depth for some lame excuse like "its an addition!", if your gf's addition was hiv would you do it? but sadly I has to sleep, so this thread can die like every other thread does. Except awesome ones like 1-to-50

you just arent understanding it.

with a cool down system lets say your best attack is on a 8 second cool down, and the fight lasts 40 seconds if you hit your WS as soon as it is up you get to do 5 WS in 40 seconds, if you delay to dodge WS you may only get 4 or 3. also you are not getting tp, or doing AA damage fore the 5 seconds it takes to dodge

Dodging isnt always about moving to the side, its sometimes about running far away.

point in case, rubyscale pteroc, tail chase huge aoe damage, long cast, giving you time to dodge. moving to the side wont help you, you need to run far from the enemy.

these cases you lose damage for dodging, tank and spank is encouraged, unless you absolutely have to move or die/suffer horrible debilitation you should just take all damage cause you are lowering your dps.

[viion]

you just arent understanding it.

with a cool down system lets say your best attack is on a 8 second cool down, and the fight lasts 40 seconds if you hit your WS as soon as it is up you get to do 5 WS in 40 seconds, if you delay to dodge WS you may only get 4 or 3. also you are not getting tp, or doing AA damage fore the 5 seconds it takes to dodge

Dodging isnt always about moving to the side, its sometimes about running far away.

point in case, rubyscale pteroc, tail chase huge aoe damage, long cast, giving you time to dodge. moving to the side wont help you, you need to run far from the enemy.

these cases you lose damage for dodging, tank and spank is encouraged, unless you absolutely have to move or die/suffer horrible debilitation you should just take all damage cause you are lowering your dps.

But in the current system you dont get TP when you dodge (Dodging being running in a straight line away), so why are you saying this bullshit that will be in both systems.

This thread is beyond retarded.

[Physic]

But in the current system you dont get TP when you dodge (Dodging being running in a straight line away), so why are you saying this bullshit that will be in both systems.

This thread is beyond retarded.

you really dont see? ok
lets say i am auto attacking if i move to dodge the monsters skill, for however long it takes to run away, and run back i am doing no damage, and gaining no tp, whatever dps that cause in damage, and WS from tp is lost

if you have stamina your stamina is probably half, you run away, you cant attack for that time, but by the time you go back, you can make up for it, since your stamina is full.


Essentially a major point of a stamina system is doesnt matter if i constantly hit the button, or i wait 10 seconds and hit the button, i will get the same amount of attacks in a 20 second period.
in AA any time you are out of AA range, you are losing attacks, and tp, you cant run back and throw 5 attacks, you just missed those opputunities.


to say it different,
stamina means i can throw 10 attacks however i want in 1 minute
AA means i can throw 1 attack every 6 seconds.

if i run from a mob for 30 seconds, in stamina system i can still land 10 attacks/gain 10 attacks worth tp
if i run for a mob for 30 seconds in a AA system it means i can only throw 5 attacks/gain 5 attacks worth tp

any situation where you get stopped, knocked away, slept, the monster runs you run, you have to wait for others, in a stamina system you dont lose the amount of skills you can perform
in AA in all of those cases you lose.

im not saying whether you care or think its important, but do you understand what people are saying the difference is? Its a big difference.

[Shai]

But in the current system you dont get TP when you dodge (Dodging being running in a straight line away), so why are you saying this bullshit that will be in both systems.

This thread is beyond retarded.

Correct. You get Stamina.

In the proposed system you get neither.
That's the entire point that was trying to be made, man.

It's that simple!

[Rentahamster]

But in the current system you dont get TP when you dodge

Imagine these two scenarios both occur in the span of 3 seconds, and in the scenario with auto-attack, the attack rate is one attack per second.


Auto-attack: Attack once, move out of range to dodge TP move and miss, move back in range and attack. (Total hits landed: 2)

Stamina: Attack once, move out of range to dodge TP move, move back in range and attack twice in rapid succession. (Total hits landed: 3)

[Shai]

Read my post above because if you're losing TP and running so far the mob loses battle, then yes you're running like a headless chicken and should stop playing this game because you suck so bad at it, you can easily dodge with facing the mob every second. And so what? You're now upset that a bar is not being filled up so you can do more stuff because the bar restricts you where as now the new system has no bar and you dont need to wait for it you can just go right ahead and do your skills LIKE SHOWN IN THE VIDEO BY THE PUGILIST ZOMG

WTF are you talking about, man? Why would I run "so far the mob loses battle?" When was that implied?

You never ran out of range of the slug discharge? You never run out of range of the circular red-Puk AOE? Certainly you don't have to, but you can, and if you did, you'd return to the fray with full stamina.

I'm not sure why you're over complicating or simplifying things, or telling me I can't play the game because you can't understand what 2 people are explaining to you in a variety of ways and examples. Oh well. I tried. Sleep tight.