"New or learning players should just make their own parties in party finder"

[indira]

when in DF to learn tell the truth about you skill level most people will tell you how to do the fight. if you lie people will just say your a idiot and leave or kick you.
when in the PF thats the rules whatever the leader put in the comment.

today i been teaching new people all day in DF after 3-4 wipes they gave me commendations as a DPS after we won.

[Richiealvian]

The issue is this: deadly or time-consuming mechanics in this game are very rarely intuitive or easy to learn.

People who figure them out on the first try (without seeing other players in the parties do it, or being told how it's done) are the exception, not the rule.

Some mechanics give you big clues on how to solve them. A considerable amount of boss fights will include clickable items that you almost always just click immediately.
For example:

1. Cannons against Isgebind.
2. Bubbles in Satasha.
3. Stinger in Toto-rak.
4. Lanterns in Haukke.
5. Crystals in Dzemael.
6. Golem's heart in Dzemael.

However, the majority of deadly mechanics are nearly impossible to figure out without trial-and-error, guessing, or knowing beforehand.

1. Blasting cap in Copperbell Mines.
2. Wisps in Halatali.
3. Poison pools in Brayflox.
4. Doom effect in Qarn.
5. The sandworm's abilities in Cutter's Cry.
6. Chimera's abilities in Cutter's Cry.
7. Firewater AoE in Dzemael.
8. Isgebind's breath attacks in Stone Vigil.
9. Morbol fruit in Aurum Vale. (when it's best to use them)
10. Eye of the Beholder in Aurum Vale.
11. Livia in CM.
12. Everything the Ultima weapon uses.

And so, what ultimately ends up happening is that the player who is not familiar with the mechanic asks for an explanation, or fails repeatedly to pass the mechanic (and waste everyone's time). Then, it's up to the party to explain how to pass this mechanic. So now, we've spent the same amount of time explaining the mechanic manually as it would have taken for the new player to simply read about it on their own.

Is it so much to ask for new players to familiarize themselves with mechanics that they are very likely to not be able to figure out within a reasonable timeframe? Or do we really expect everyone who queues up in the Duty Finder to be willing to go for the maximum length of time available to clear the dungeon?




Let's be honest here, we're not just talking about a wipe or two to learn some of these mechanics. This is especially true because if you die too early to see it more than once (or totally are oblivious to what is going on), you may not even know what's going on and have to try it multiple times to even see how you are dying.

Even if you know how to handle mechanics such as Isgebind's breath, Doom, and Ram's Voice, it takes precise execution to dodge them. Knowing and understanding what to expect is a very, very large first step that makes passing the mechanic even possible. I'm sure that people who've mastered HM and XM primals and Coil will still need to focus when dodging some mechanics.

I'll hand it back to you, is it too much to tell someone how to do it instead of condemning them for not knowing? has it been a must nowadays to know what's coming before you do a dungeon? I'd rather go in blind and enjoy the surprise, if I keep dying I'll just ask why I died.

[Ulathskullsplitter]

Pretty common sight whenever I open PF.

Well since the learning party is at the bottom that means it has been on there the least amount of time. Theres no telling how much longer those other parties have been up or how many it started with in the first place. But at least people on your server are nice about the non learning party. The stuff people put on it on my server is just disgusting elitist d baggery at its worst. Cant even post half the things on this forum or Id face a ban its that rude.

[myahele]

It should honestly be the opposite. Experienced players should be the one using party finder.

[DragonSlayer45]

Funny part about learning party, some join without reading the part that actually says "LEARNING PARTY" and gets all pissed off inside after first/second wipe.

This. This. All of this.

I joined a Titan Extreme "learning" group the other day that made it to heart before it broke apart. (Which is like... next to no experience at all) One of the tanks was just being a negative nancy throughout and claimed that "He wanted to play with the scary bombs." before dropping. That was it. We didn't even get three go's in. We barely ran out of time. We just had three attempts of "learning" before everyone called it quits. Same thing happened today with Garuda Extreme with 3 Linkshell mates and 4 other randoms. We got past tornadoes, but we made one careless mistake before the healer was like "This isn't going to work." and dropped.

Suffice it to say, most (not all) "learning" groups in Party Finder end up not being what they should be. You'll always get that one (or more) person who's there to expect a quick and easy win, and will immediately quit if the group isn't up to their so-called standards.

[Mezolitik]

I tried briefly to get a Castrum Meridianum story party with the PF last night, until the futility of it all hit me. I was advertising for eight noobs in a forum that basically caters to expert Coil and EX Primal runners only. The PF may be the greatest feature this game has ever had but until SE actually tells people about it, you're not gonna get anything like a Copperbell story run in there.

The party leaders are totally unforgiving as well. I like to think that there's some super-l33t guy out there who hasn't raided in days because he's booted everybody who looked at him the wrong way.

[synaesthetic]

The funny thing is, almost every "super leet experienced only" EX primal battle parties I've joined in the past two weeks... most of them have just wiped repeatedly for a half hour before making rude comments and dropping.

You can't cure stupid.

[Deculture]

It's funny how the JP players have a completely opposite approach to PF and DF. Probably another reason why JP parties usually dislike any EN players that queue in DF.

JP players have alot of learning parties using the PF, they use the DF to clear content. So you can bet when they get grouped up with some random EN noob who is completely new, causing them to wipe, they're gonna be pissed.

Now you know why JP players auto votekick players with the EN language underlined in their profile

[Renik]

lets go back to 2.0 days, when ppl used DF to learn titan amd shout to win, it's fact ppl use DF to learn and shout-PF to win.

DF is faster, and the number or noobs (willing to learn) is very reduced resver-wide, using DF to learn the fights is something that happened naturally, and it's not gonna change, you should never expext elistism or pertfec execution on a DF pty.

In my opinion SE shoud fire the battle team, because these encripted battles are a lazzy desing method that lead to harrassment and stress, dungeon boss mechanic are fun but bosses like titanHM, ultimaHM and all the EX aren't, this is the cause behind the complaints related to elistist and firstimers, battles aren't fun and most ppl just want to get their loots or win and forget about them, not to mention fights like garuda HM and EX that are drastically reducing the number of tanks.

[synaesthetic]

What are you on about? Ultima Weapon HM is probably the best and most fun fight in the game right now. o_o

It has tons of fun mechanics, lots of things to dodge and only ONE "gotcha" mechanic. It's also not nearly as latency twitchy as Titan HM/EX.

Ultima HM is seriously a bullet hell boss and that's amazing. Titan HM/EX is frustrating and terrible because it's so incredibly sensitive to network latency, and because you cannot really recover from any deaths. Combining the two makes them terrible.