Opinion on tanking design

[Paikis]

Holmgang is a god send? Did I miss some change where they made it less... rubbish?

Holmgang tries to do too many things, does none of them well and just ends up being a rubbish cooldown.

[Zfz]

Not a problem at all. Just make certain key boss abilities hit through invincibility effects. This intention is already apparent in the wording of the tooltips for Holmgang and Invincibility.

The way I see it, they want invincibility effects as a last saving grace, but will have things that will ignore invincibility.

[Neablis]

You make it sound like Holm is actually on par with a paladins TRUE invincibility. What warriors have is a shadow in comparison, was it a slight improvement yes, but its still not a very good ability and honestly its not really invincibility its more of a oh crap i just took a billion dmg and i'm at 1 hp atleast I had holm on so the white mages or scholars could heal me up.

[Codek]

I hardly consider Warriors having an invincibility skill even with Holmgang.
9 Times out of 10, I pop Holmgang at low health where I don't believe the healer will get me and they just prove me wrong.

The tenth time, can be broken down into:
1. It saved my ass
2. Healers are already dead (so I'm just trying to drag on an extra 6 seconds of life)
3. It saved my ass, but it locked me into a spot I don't want to be in and now I'm back to being afraid for my life

My Overall point is that killing bosses successfully has very little to do with the use of Holmgang. I pop it anyways just for safety sake but generally when it's done, I would have survived anyways.

[PiedPiper]

I'm not convinced this is that much a limit. Perfect dodge would fit an evasion tank very well. As it is we have turtle and blood, evasion is the only classic tank paradigm left. That said our current blood tank isn't that... bloody. Both classes have the same effective hp, and actually if you break it down over time, warrior can mitigate more damage from cool downs than paladin can (excluding hallowed ground) via cool downs (note this is not counting shield oath).

[Bigpurpleharness]

I'm not convinced this is that much a limit. Perfect dodge would fit an evasion tank very well. As it is we have turtle and blood, evasion is the only classic tank paradigm left. That said our current blood tank isn't that... bloody. Both classes have the same effective hp, and actually if you break it down over time, warrior can mitigate more damage from cool downs than paladin can (excluding hallowed ground) via cool downs (note this is not counting shield oath).

I do wish they would make WAR more "Blood". They'd need to make IB scale with incoming damage, and fix storm's path healing though. Also, Bloodbath should be increased or renamed Bloody Nose.

I think they should also remove the dmg reduction on IB and and make vengeance back to what it was (Assuming they allow bloodbath to function well, in which case vengeance and BB would be great paired together)

[Paikis]

They'd need to make IB scale with incoming damage

It already does. 20% damage reduction scales perfectly with incoming damage.

and fix storm's path healing though. Also, Bloodbath should be increased or renamed Bloody Nose.

Storm's Path isn't about the heal anymore, it is all about that debuff... though letting it heal a % of max HP would be better than the current system it isn't needed. Bloodbath is a very minor cooldown that can heal for a significant amount over its duration, but it doesn't really 'pop'.

I think they should also remove the dmg reduction on IB and and make vengeance back to what it was (Assuming they allow bloodbath to function well, in which case vengeance and BB would be great paired together)

So you want them to nerf WARs?

[Nalou]

Honestly, the tank Limit Break seems to fit this role. The healer Limit Break does as well.
They are made to survive oshit moments, they are our party oshit button (and it makes me sad when a dps pops the LB mid-fight without finishing the boss).

Paladin and White Mage have long "o shit" buttons too. Warrior and Scholar don't, because they aren't as simple as "push the button" (need wrath, combos, aether, multiples actions... nono, that doesn't work).


I think these will be adjusted soon, because they can be used as a strategy to bypass some fight mechanics, while they were probably meant to recover from mistakes done by players.

[Kitru]

Honestly, the tank Limit Break seems to fit this role. The healer Limit Break does as well.

Limit breaks are a communal resource and need to be useful in a communal context. The CDs we're referring to strictly benefit the individual using them in that specific situation. HG and the t3 tank LB serve very different purposes, since the tank LBs are largely on par with the normal tank CDs except that they apply to everyone while HG is an explicit "tank take no damage" ability. A situation in which HG would be useful isn't going to be the same one that a tank LB would be useful for because the tank LB is less about making sure that the *tank* survives but more about ensuring that all of the squishies survive a big AoE.

The damage LBs work as they are because they calculate damage based upon the entire group (e.g. a MNK in terribad gear and a DRG in amazing gear are actually doing to do the same damage with their LB if they're in the same group) and damage is always a useful contributor, since, you know, stuff has to die so it's powered communally in order to accomplish a collective goal. Healing and mitigation are specific (you only really need to heal the tank 90% of the time and only the tank needs to have appreciable mitigation because DPS shouldn't be getting hit by stuff that actually requires mitigation to survive) so it's appropriate for tanks and healers to have their own uber-CDs while DPS have to rely upon LBs.

[Kelberos]

Or drop the immunity and increase healing done by 700% for 10sec. That'll be fun - and more in line with the warrior way of life.