Hardcore... How would you define it?

[Grey_Cain]

Hardcore are people that aim for the final destination right from beginning. They want to be at the top, even when they're still at the bottom, and spend most of their free time working toward it. They want to be the best, or, at least for the more realistic of them, rub shoulders with the best. When they see someone better, that has something they don't have, they work toward getting it immediately. They will work toward multiple goals at the same time, spending more free time as their goals expand. When they finally reach the top they then spend their free time maintaining their position at the top; getting all the rarest vanity loot; grinding out achievements; working out new strategies with guild-mates; PvP to test/train personal ability; raising other classes/alternate characters so they can swap in other roles/ability sets to complete specific content; scheduling dates and times that they will meet with "their" group to complete specific content; completing all new content as soon as possible to try and claim world-firsts, etc. At some point when they figure out that they have nothing left to work toward and no new content on the horizon, they'll quit the game when something new comes along. Later, when they're bored of their new stuff, they'll look back and see what expansions have come out. Then they'll re-install/re-sub and work toward completing the new content, and they'll stick around until, again, something new comes along to replace it.

Casuals look at the world immediately in front of them and don't worry about the journey ahead. They'll complete content when it's appropriate or even later if it's initially too hard. They don't like being forced into groups with strangers to complete content, but they'll do so if it's necessary to advance the plot. They don't want to grind, and they'll give up on obtaining items/completing sidequests if it would take too long to complete. When they finally find out what the end-game will be, they just shrug their shoulders and say they'll get there eventually. When they finally get to end-game, they complete what content they can and ignore content that's too difficult. They raise other classes if there are good cross-class skills they can use, but they wouldn't even consider raising an alt. They'll grind under duress if the story requires it, and they see party-play as stressful even before they get into a party. At some point when they figure out that they aren't having fun anymore, they'll quit the game without waiting for something new to replace it. Later, when they're bored and looking for something to do, they'll look at the expansions that have come out, shrug their shoulders, and say it's too much effort to re-install/re-sub for something that's not really fun for them anymore.

Most players are mid-core, who mix and match attributes of both hard-core and casual. Maybe they like levelling alts but don't care about end-game. Maybe they don't like party play but they still try to complete party content while solo. They'll grind for good gear so they can take on greater challenges at the end-game, but they'll quit the game when they look at all the content that remains before them and decide that it isn't worth the effort of keeping up what is basically a second job to complete the parts they care about completing. Later, when they're between games and looking for something to do, they might see that some expansions have come out and evaluate what content has been added. They might even re-install/re-sub if they figure there's enough to keep them going for a few months until they can drop it for something newer/better.

tl;dr - Hardcore want more at end-game. Casual want more along the way to end-game. Mid-core want both to have a lot of content.

[SirGazuntai]

Hardcore - Douchebags who think they're awesome because gear.
Casual - Douchebags who think they're awesome because they don't want gear.

^ The petty arguments you're bound to run into. People who consider themselves hardcore will clown casuals, and vice versa, for seemingly no reason.

People consider me a hardcore player. I often get mocked because I always join casual guilds (or FC in this instance) despite the fact it would be better to join fellow hardcore players.

In my eyes, casual players are people playing the game for fun. They enjoy the scenery, the voices, the mechanics, the story and just the experience in general. They'll log off if something they're doing is bored. Hardcore players, on the other hand, don't play for fun. I'll farm dungeons repeatedly for something despite the fact it's boring because I get enjoyment and satisfaction from progression.

A good example a friend of mine told me was:

Casual - Will play Angry Birds when they feel like it.
Hardcore - Will start playing Angry Birds and go out of their way to reach the end, despite the fact they're bored.

Completion is a huge part of a hardcore gamers enjoyment. They go out of their way to be as efficient as possible, whereas many of my FC members have no cares if they cap their Myth tombs each week which boggles my mind while it boggles their mind that I'm willing to spend 4-5 hours doing the same content over and over to cap it.

At the end of the day you won't find a clear definition, though. The best thing to do is to come up with your own definition. For example, where do you draw the line for someone who plays a sport for a hobby and someone who players it seriously? It's a similar situation.

[Tzain]

Not in FFXIV, SE Forces everyone to be casual by that definition because you can only get one primal weapon a week and can only run bcb once. So if you clear bcb in 50 minutes, then knock out the 3 primals in 30 minutes, and run CT in 60, and High Level Duty Finder to cap, bam your done for the week. There is no reason to run stuff except to help people past that point, or farm accessories on primals. If you have all the said accessories on all your jobs theres nothing to do, thus have been forced to be casual because you can't rerun bcb.

For a game to support true hardcore play, it needs to have content that is so Epically hard, that it requires massive time dumps. Everything in this game can be cleared in a night in 2 hours.

For us, we still have turn 5, but once it goes down, it will go down faster the next week. And then we'll clear it all in one night.

TRUE. Developers do not particularly like Hardcore players when it comes to progress. They tend to screw up the timelines as they are on the outside of the averages that the developers used to build their models. Things like "myth caps" are designed to control their progress. HOWEVER this does nothing to stop their Hardcore tendencies as they will likely just move onto some other activity in the game. In your given model, The Casual player will stop after completing the content you described. They will log out or pace themselves to take a week to complete what they aim to complete. If that same player was hardcore, they'd find additional things to do. To put it overly simply, The casual player logs out when they are done with their current task. The hardcore finds another task.

By the way, I remember having this conversation with some people and the guy who backed up my description is a professional game developer for AAA titles, he even added that when developers discuss the term "hardcore", they are talking about time spent in one sitting.

FYI, Groups that work together to take the hardest current content in the game as soon as it's released have an all together different term applied to them. It varies depending on the crowd, but the most commonly used ones I've heard are "Bleeding Edge", "Progression", and (my personal favorite) "Vanguard". Seriously, Vanguard just sounds badass.

[Langureion]

Level each single job to Max and geared with BiS in every single slot, clear every single mission/quest/duty

[Dorin]

I distinguish Hard-Core and Casual via attitude.

A Hard-Core player is serious and treats the game like a high-stakes gambling or sporting event in which they are the player. They care very much about the success of their endeavors, and want their game-mates to have the same attitude. They might spend hours researching raids or the best equipment sets, or figuring our exactly what combination of skills, gear, and ancillary items will make them the best they can be.

A Casual player is someone who does not value success as highly, and plays the game for "light hearted" enjoyment. They may spend a lot of time in the game, and it may be spent on the same content, but their attitude might be one of, "Hey if we get it, cool, if we don't - I had some fun!" They probably are not going to spend long hours to accomplish the same goals or minute advantages a "Hard-Core" player might.

I don't think one is better than the other, I tend to get into sporadic bursts of one or the other.

Pretty good and accurate descriptions actually, I agree with you.

[Simurgi]

My explanation :

Hardcore is an approach to the game that the majority of other players may feel is 'not needed,' 'over the top,' or excessive. E.g. ,a hardcore player will level their chochobo to 10 in 3 weekends. He will set this as his goal, and focus on that goal until it is complete. A casual on the other hand, may take 3 months to achieve the same goal, or not consider this as a goal at all.

Player skill is a subset to the hard-core mindset and not necessarily a defining quality. I say this because hardcore players tend to grind more, and repetitions typically hone a skill.

Lastly, time is irrelevant. A hard-core player may have had lots of time in the past to play games like this. And while that excessive time played in the past probably developed his approach to gaming today, he may not be afforded the same luxuries to play all hours of the day like within his previous life .

[Legend_]

snip

Wow your like a psychic

For me its pretty much what most said. The amount of time you put in. In my MMO prime I wasn't getting no sleep on the weekends going 15 hours straight on FFXI. My personal best was two days

Dont confuse hard core with Elitist, Elistist won't even talk to you or the party unless your cut from the same cloth.

[Commatbear]

I don't think it has to to with time or mindset as most people have suggested.

It has to do with how committed you are to other people.

For instance, a hardcore player when a new raid comes out is committed to playing 4 hours a day for a few nights each week. This creates an obligation to people and to the game.

Casual players don't have this obligation regardless of how many hours they play a week. They could play for 40 hours a week whenever they want and never feel as though they cant leave.

My definition, i believe, can be proven in game. Ever wonder why bad players are in full Coil gear? or why very good players with a lot of in game time have none or haven't run coil at all? one is committed and dedicated to a group of players and the other is not. (no offense to hardcore raiders, i know many of you are elite.)

Its not about how much you play or how much you want to win but how many hours you are willing to invest without the possibility of leaving.

[Xystic]

Hardcore - A lot of effort put in beyond normal

It can be applied in a multitude of directions.

For example, You can have a multitude of hardcore raiders.

You can have the skilled down to the single digit number math players. They can tell you how much damage in "X" time frame on "Y" encounter. They can calculate how much margin of error they have and where to make up for such errors if they occur. These players, put in "A lot of effort beyond normal" in understanding the mechanics of progression.

Next you can have the skill-less but time invested players. They don't understand the mechanics down to the single digits but they spend countless hours cracking at content. Sooner or later, they eventually increase that margin for error with gear or get lucky and produce the needed numbers in the specific set time frame to down content. These players are also considered hard-core. They put in "A lot of effort beyond normal" with time invested.

You can have players that sit in between the two. Because they put slightly more effort than normal in time and understanding mechanics but overal its still "A lot of effort beyond normal" invested.

This can also be applied to, a hardcore merchant as well~

[Ryios]

By the way, I remember having this conversation with some people and the guy who backed up my description is a professional game developer for AAA titles, he even added that when developers discuss the term "hardcore", they are talking about time spent in one sitting.

Agreed, but some people are hybrids, like myself. I am hardcore when I can be, and casual when I have to be. I'm not 17 anymore, I can't play 30 hours straight and not have a job. I have a mortgage to pay and deadlines to meet on projects. But whenever time presents itself I burn it all on video games. Mostly because I enjoy too. So I'm a hybrid, and end up with a schedule of when I play. So monday-thursday it's basically 9pm to midnight or 2 am, but fri night all out play fest 10+ hours if posisble until I am to tired to see straight.

As for other stuff to do.... We leveled new characters with classes we don't have on our mains and run BCB twice, I'm still working on mine, but others in my static already have a 2nd static rolling.