Direct X 10/11 Question - Answer (Translated)

[Jennestia]

Its not even PS3 limitations, DC Univerise runs on DX10 and is on both ps3 and pc. Its SE Limitations...

PS3 is an OGL based system, and DCU isn't exactly looking (or running) better than a DX9 game.

[Elexia]

Know what's funny? Civilization 5 gives me an option for DX9 and 10/11. I played with both, and both still looks and plays just fine because for the most part the game is fully optimized. However the same people who say DX10/11 is such a huge step also believes the PS3 isn't a 32-bit console.

Just because graphic cards have dx 10/11 support doesn't mean it is popular. That's just retarded.

Very few single player games actually use DX11, and this game is an MMO- a game of a genre that is always going to be behind cutting edge technology. They might have some pressure for supporting DX10, if only it had more of an impact on the graphics as it does now. DX11 has tesselation but not many are using it- thus it's not popular.

Once DX11 finally becomes mainstream for PC games SE might start supporting it, but not before. The game looks fucking gorgeous as-is, and so do single player games like the witcher 2 that run on DX9 still.

Not to mention the current engine should be optimised for DX9 before making it 10 or 11 compatible. Which is what they're doing.

I'm sorry if logic got in the way of your mindless bitching. Go on.

They'll just bitch because you tried to bring logic, then you'll have viion try to argue against it because it's logical.

[Rydin]

People...... While this also bothers me... I think we are looking at the entire situation backwards

So allow me a little Devil's advocate here

I don't think they are saying the PS3 version is STOPPING them from upgrading the engine

I think they are saying the PS3 is the reason it was never DX10 in the first place

This crystal tools engine debuted on FFXIII
the engine was made for an openGL based PS3
For those of who you dont know... that is a completely different language than DirectX
There was a LOOOONG delay for FFXIII getting the engine ready to support DX9 and the Xbox 360
(Originally FFXIII was going to be PS2 only, then PS3 only and finally PS3 and XBox 360)

I have not seen any of the coding for the engine.... But it feels like SE is saying DX10 never made it past the cost analysis phase
I know you'll hate to hear this... but from a business standpoint... DX10 would only benefit PC players and right now, PS3 players are the demographic that would make this game profitable
FFXIII did 1.7 million on PS3 IN THE FIRST WEEK OF RELEASE... IN JAPAN ONLY
Even 25% of that would double the FFXIV PC numbers
And even if people don't stick around, 500,000 copies is, at the very least, a quick 25 million
So it seems the decision was made to focus on updates that will benefit both PS3 and PC players (Content, battle system) over ones that will benefit the PC players only... and could require much of the code for the engine and game being re-written
Does it suck... yea...

Does it bother me... Hell yea.... but it is what it is

[Elexia]

They never said the PS3 was stopping them, people are being stupid and assuming it's a limitation when in reality it's because the nature of the PS3 is DIFFERENT from PCs and FFXIV, like most MMOs, aren't heavily different versions if it's cross platform. Because it's cross platform it has to take THE SYSTEM SPECS INTO CONSIDERATION which is basically what was said.

For some reason DC Universe was brought up when the common complaint is it runs poorly on the PS3 and not just lag being the problem, so that's not a good example of "DX10/11 for an MMO thats on both PC and PS3."

[Delsus]

People...... While this also bothers me... I think we are looking at the entire situation backwards

So allow me a little Devil's advocate here

I don't think they are saying the PS3 version is STOPPING them from upgrading the engine

I think they are saying the PS3 is the reason it was never DX10 in the first place

This crystal tools engine debuted on FFXIII
the engine was made for an openGL based PS3
For those of who you dont know... that is a completely different language than DirectX
There was a LOOOONG delay for FFXIII getting the engine ready to support DX9 and the Xbox 360
(Originally FFXIII was going to be PS2 only, then PS3 only and finally PS3 and XBox 360)

I have not seen any of the coding for the engine.... But it feels like SE is saying DX10 never made it past the cost analysis phase
I know you'll hate to hear this... but from a business standpoint... DX10 would only benefit PC players and right now, PS3 players are the demographic that would make this game profitable
FFXIII did 1.7 million on PS3 IN THE FIRST WEEK OF RELEASE... IN JAPAN ONLY
Even 25% of that would double the FFXIV PC numbers
And even if people don't stick around, 500,000 copies is, at the very least, a quick 25 million
So it seems the decision was made to focus on updates that will benefit both PS3 and PC players (Content, battle system) over ones that will benefit the PC players only... and could require much of the code for the engine and game being re-written
Does it suck... yea...

Does it bother me... Hell yea.... but it is what it is

I dont think this is it, from what it Bayohne said it looks like they dont think Dx10/11 is popular enough, which is what is throwing people off, some clarification could help.

But if that is the case then its no excuse because the only cards that will play the game support atleast Dx10, Dx9 is virtually obsolete now, if they used technologies that old for other parts of thier company they would be out of business.

SE should be looking to take advantage of the latest technologies or they will be bankrupt in no time.

[Rydin]

I dont think this is it, from what it Bayohne said it looks like they dont think Dx10/11 is popular enough, which is what is throwing people off, some clarification could help.

But if that is the case then its no excuse because the only cards that will play the game support atleast Dx10, Dx9 is virtually obsolete now, if they used technologies that old for other parts of thier company they would be out of business.

Which is why I think the quote was just misunderstood
I can't name any other major title in the last year with no DX10 support....
You really can't get any more popular than that

[Delsus]

They never said the PS3 was stopping them, people are being stupid and assuming it's a limitation when in reality it's because the nature of the PS3 is DIFFERENT from PCs and FFXIV, like most MMOs, aren't heavily different versions if it's cross platform. Because it's cross platform it has to take THE SYSTEM SPECS INTO CONSIDERATION which is basically what was said.

For some reason DC Universe was brought up when the common complaint is it runs poorly on the PS3 and not just lag being the problem, so that's not a good example of "DX10/11 for an MMO thats on both PC and PS3."

The main differance with DC universe and ffxiv is the engine for DC universe was designed for PC and running on Dx, Crystal tools was designed for the PS3 using openGL and had to be adapted to Dx, this explains why dc universe doesnt run that well on PS3, and we are seeing problems with the Crystal tools on PC.

[Elexia]

But if that is the case then its no excuse because the only cards that will play the game support atleast Dx10, Dx9 is virtually obsolete now, if they used technologies that old for other parts of thier company they would be out of business.

I'll use your words:

some clarification could help

1. DX9 isn't obsolete, far from it actually. Latest games are still DX9, however they're DX10/11 compliant.
2. "The only cards that will play the game support at least DX10" - This is because they're new technology, therefore logically it will support the newest versions because you're buying NEW technology. It also doesn't mean it will magically unsupport DX3-DX9c. Why do you think some games and etc require DX9 files on your system? It's still supported.
3. DX10/11 are fluff. It's not a large step up from 9 in performance but it does have better GRAPHICAL capabilities, but then again this IS the generation of gamers who think graphics make the game.
4. There's no games, or rather very few games that are even full DX10/11 out today. It's not main stream, even some of the newest games coming out are still DX9 and a select few are actually DX10 (ME3 I think is one of the few DX10 titles coming out soon.)

[Rydin]

I'll use your words:



1. DX9 isn't obsolete, far from it actually. Latest games are still DX9, however they're DX10/11 compliant.
2. "The only cards that will play the game support at least DX10" - This is because they're new technology, therefore logically it will support the newest versions because you're buying NEW technology. It also doesn't mean it will magically unsupport DX3-DX9c. Why do you think some games and etc require DX9 files on your system? It's still supported.
3. DX10/11 are fluff. It's not a large step up from 9 in performance but it does have better GRAPHICAL capabilities, but then again this IS the generation of gamers who think graphics make the game.
4. There's no games, or rather very few games that are even full DX10/11 out today. It's not main stream, even some of the newest games coming out are still DX9 and a select few are actually DX10 (ME3 I think is one of the few DX10 titles coming out soon.)

True... But the jump from DX9 to DX10 is arguably bigger than the jump from DX10 to DX11
In particular I think we all could see the benefit of this game using DX10's Instancing and geometry shaders
Specifically Instancing....
http://software.intel.com/en-us/arti...in-directx-10/
Here is an article from Intel re: DX10 instancing.. specifically rendering grass

[Delsus]

I'll use your words:



1. DX9 isn't obsolete, far from it actually. Latest games are still DX9, however they're DX10/11 compliant.
2. "The only cards that will play the game support at least DX10" - This is because they're new technology, therefore logically it will support the newest versions because you're buying NEW technology. It also doesn't mean it will magically unsupport DX3-DX9c. Why do you think some games and etc require DX9 files on your system? It's still supported.
3. DX10/11 are fluff. It's not a large step up from 9 in performance but it does have better GRAPHICAL capabilities, but then again this IS the generation of gamers who think graphics make the game.
4. There's no games, or rather very few games that are even full DX10/11 out today. It's not main stream, even some of the newest games coming out are still DX9 and a select few are actually DX10 (ME3 I think is one of the few DX10 titles coming out soon.)

The main reason that games dont soley support Dx10/11 is because Windows XP only officially supports upto Dx9.0c, however the people that are to stubborn to switch from xp to 7 should not hold the game back. which as I say is why most games support dx9 and dx10/11 therefore the people running xp can play while people using systems that are up to date can use the potential of the system they payed for.

All sticking to Dx9 and xp will do is kill the game in a few years because of (as uoi said:

the generation of gamers who think graphics make the game.

I dont think graphics make the game by the way my ps3 has ps1 games on and I even play N64 games i enjoy, but any company that wants a chance in the computer industry no matter what it is, need to stay up to date, because in possibly 2 years Dx12 could be out, then in another 4 years Dx13 and 4 years later Dx14, at that time if ffxiv is still live it will be 15 years out of date and people will leave long before that.

I want whats best for the game in the long run with the current generation of gamers and not dead because SE stubbornly stuck to XP like they have done with FFXI and the PS2.

If the game survives PS3 release and further what will kill the game is SE stubbornly sticking to xp like they did with ffxi and ps2.

Gamers "we need x feature added to the game" SE "sorry XP limitations" is what we will see if they dont upgrade within about 2 years. however if a new API is out then it wont be as mush progress as it would be if it was done asap