Tanks Who Constantly Queue and Then Withdraw Trying to Get in Progress Instances

[Traek]

Thumbs up for knowing what you're talking about instead of spouting some altruistic crap about how we should all help each other and be self-sacrificial. Thanks for living in the real world and not in a utopian dream world.

I think its funny you are praising a person who opposes the very system you just proposed:

Honestly, WoW's LFG system works. It took years of refinement, but the features in place work for a reason. Too bad mentioning WoW is sacreligious here.
-Prioritize in-progress groups
-Queue system needs to be reworked so that the party does not scrap when one person withdraws
-Satchel Rewards for Tank/Healer when they're in demand
-Hide progress so the person queueing does not know how far into the dungeon they are
-When queueing as group, people cannot leave at start of dungeon (no more selling tank queues)

We have been suggesting something similar to this all through out the thread.

[Archona]

I think its funny you are praising a person who opposes the very system you just proposed:



We have been suggesting something similar to this all through out the thread.

Nope, I exclusively tank in high level dungeons, and I cherry pick/snipe my runs all the time. The only thing that is contradictory from his post is the fact that I support blind drop-ins, which I wouldn't mind, to be honest. It is a change that has to be made. The rest of his post still makes sense.

People dont run in-progress runs to help others, they do it for their own rewards. That is his major point that a lot of people fail to grasp.

[necrosis]

Nope, I exclusively tank in high level dungeons, and I cherry pick/snipe my runs all the time. The only thing that is contradictory from his post is the fact that I support blind drop-ins, which I wouldn't mind, to be honest. It is a change that has to be made. The rest of his post still makes sense.

People dont run in-progress runs to help others, they do it for their own rewards. That is his major point that a lot of people fail to grasp.

Wow. Could you sound any more selfish, elitist, "ME ME ME" than with that last line?

[Archona]

Wow. Could you sound any more selfish, elitist, "ME ME ME" than with that last line?

If a system can be gamed, it will be gamed. Period. If there is a shorter route getting from A to B, a way to save time, then there will always be people who use it. I'm sorry, am I supposed to be running Duty Finder to help all those other people that I'll never see again? Yeah, right. Please continue. Why aren't YOU in Duty Finder queues 24/7 then, if I'm so 'selfish'?

We tanks are not your servants, nor are we obligated to run anybody at anytime.

[Killance]

If a system can be gamed, it will be gamed. Period. If there is a shorter route getting from A to B, a way to save time, then there will always be people who use it. I'm sorry, am I supposed to be running Duty Finder to help all those other people that I'll never see again? Yeah, right. Please continue. Why aren't YOU in Duty Finder queues 24/7 then, if I'm so 'selfish'?

We tanks are not your servants, nor are we obligated to run anybody at anytime.

I like this guy.

[Kinseykinz]

There are a multitude of key points that people seem to fail to grasp.

• The in-progress parties that have lost a member should be top priority in the queue.
• One of the reasons that parties lose members is because they are failing to progress in the duty at a reasonable pace.
• The long queues exist only because there is a disproportionate number of DPS compared to tanks and healers. This is the root cause of these problems, and it is created by the DPS themselves. We can't address this issue, obviously, but people need to be aware that this is very much a player-community-caused problem.
  

Forcing players to join blindly in-progress or from the start will disincentivize players from using the duty finder at all. It's risky enough to use the duty finder and landing in a bad alliance that has at least progressed halfway or more; it's even worse to risk the chance of joining a bad alliance that has to start from the beginning. Given time, players in desired roles will opt out altogether and use the Party Finder.

The idea that we can control people's selfish behavior is misguided. Placing greater penalties on them will just cause them to use alternative methods or to simply leave altogether.
You want players to be encouraged to join because of the incentive of not having to run the first parts of the dungeon.

No, the ONLY reason there is a tank/healer slot open for your 2/3 progress queue in the first place is typically because after a wipe or something stupid happened...something that might not have even been the fault of a remaining party member, the Tank/healer left them. After 1 mistake. Or after entering and seeing 'someone is new' or the have the wrong 'type' of DD for that dungeon etc.

Again, the DF is get this, NOT the only way to queue up for content. You can form your own parties to your own expectations....but even this doesn't happen as much anymore because that takes tanks and healers willing to start>finish an instance, and since as you say, they get rewarded for skipping most of the dungeon, less and less tanks/healers are even willing to party up with their own friends/FC's to do this content.


What you really want is this:

1. Reward-spread stays the same in each instance (so best reward still at end)
2. You have queue options:
-Start at beginning
-2/3
-and maybe an 'I feel like helping someone, randomly assign me where most needed'

because that's how you are treating it. So how about this. If tanks and healers can continue to abuse 'Join in Progress' than from now on, so can everyone else. EVERYONE can cue for 2/3 of every dungeon. It's just a checkbox.
Oh but wait...that will now make the DF lines long for the 'skippers' and that isn't cool?

That's basically what happens if you separate the queues...even if it isn't listed that way, and only as 'Fresh' and 'In progress' by dividing up the players, at MOST you only have half as many people to party with (because now the only people who can unlock the instance are those selecting 'start', and those waiting in the 'in-progress queue will only be able to enter if one of the starters leave...So now, you have less people to select from to actually start and unlock the Duty but MORE people waiting for someone to rage quit so everyone will have longer queue times (especially, and most amusingly for the 'Join in Progress' folk).

Not only that, the reason Tanks and Healers can even abuse this feature currently is because their counterparts who DID queue at the duty entrance, did most of the dungeon and then for whatever reason (probably a modest party mistake...one mistake), got all princessy and left, not concerned about their 30 min lockout. Why? because they can queue instantly after their 30 minutes is up...many times for an in progress party and so they can save time/spend the same amount of time and still 'punish noobs' or 'not have to deal with stupidity'

You understand that the only way and 'In-progress' entrance window can pop is because some group of 4 or 8 entered that instance from the start right? And without enough people reliably and consistantly doing that, the whole 'join in progress' feature wouldn't even work? So separating out the queues not only hurts those wishing to do a full run, but it hurts the 'skippers' too. So those who DO want to be able to join 'in-progress' groups actually benefit more from the 'blind entry' plan over the 'separate queues plan'. Because if it's blind, sure people might leave when it's not 'the spot they wanted to queue at'....but them leaving=your opening. Separating the queues just makes the 'In-progress' function broken and useless. (Because either too many people will use it=loooooong queue times or no one will=stranded parties)