Tanks Who Constantly Queue and Then Withdraw Trying to Get in Progress Instances

[Kinseykinz]

right but thats not doing anything to you...... you dont have to click commence every time that pops.... and if that person wasnt queueing you still would be waiting all that time for someone looking for a full party anyways. So nothing changes except a little bit of spam of the window popping up.

-You're assuming that that is only 1 person spamming the cue box. It could actually be multiple people. Multiple People who if 'forced' to join somehow (either blind cues or by being temporary unable to recue for 5-10 mins etc) would have allowed that party (and probably a couple others as well), to enter the instance, at least, judging from this SS, 7ish minutes faster. (IN a WP run, that's half the dungeon if speeding running for an idea of 'what's my time worth')
-If it IS one person, you and I both know, that was not the intent of 'Join Party in Progress'. But even so, until that ONE person stops holding that group hostage, not only can they not enter...but a willing party member who'd fill that slot ALSO can't join. Again, wasting not only the people cued for that instance's time...but people waiting to cue.

But to be clear, judging from how it 'works' for Tanks esp. to keep spamming until they get what they want, that was NOT 1 person cueing, but rather at least a handful spamming and declining. So yes, safeguards that would ensure that people 'take the cue they get', would make it so less people wait. And would also shorten cue times. Because it took these 'withdrawl ppl' at least 7 minutes to cue...multiply that out by every instance, on every world and you start having lots of people waiting for cues that are basically made longer for the convience of a few.


And again, I cannot stress this enough: 'Join in Progress' isn't a speed/skip button. It's an 'Sure I can help you button'. It was put in game as a way to help out a stranded party, NOT as a means to speed run to the loot/tomes/reward.

I don't agree with 'punishment' systems either...but it really is the only way to get through to the types of players who abuse the 'Join in Progress' feature this way. Afterall, they don't see anyone else's time, progress or loot as valuable, so the only way to get through to them is to make it less enticing to spam the cues until they get what they want. Make it take them LONGER to re-cue than it would take on ave to run the whole instance, and they'll just take what they get

[Naberrie]

you assume that its not intended it very well could be that this is working as it should be. But it may not be as well. but untill SE says hey dont do this no one has the right to say people should be "banned " for it thats absurd.

Well, you're right. I am assuming. I believe they added the Join In Progress feature because they thought it would be a way for people to help other players. I believe that was their intent. That is my assumption.

Also, I'm not saying I think people should be banned, nor that I thought SE would take any such action. Nowhere in my post is the word "ban". I merely suggested that, if this continues, SE will likely take some sort of action; but I don't believe it will be bans. More likely they will add a penalty that will prevent people from entering an instance. Probably an hour. And I think it would only be triggered by withdrawing too many times within a window, like 3 times within an hour.

Also, I would like to reiterate a point. Yoshi said that the reason they don't allow Server Only in Duty Finder as an option is because if too many tanks or healers used that option, Duty Finder would essentially ceased to function if no one from those classes on your server was looking. The same would apply to Join In Progress only. If too many tanks were using Join In Progress Only, it would make it virtually impossible to form an initial party.

[Zantetsuken]

There are three potential fixes:

1) Separate the queues - a fine solution, on the surface.. but I think it'll create big meta-shifts in what people queue for. Long term, DF parties will have a harder time getting formed or filled in this two-tiered process.

2) Blind entrance - No more 23/24... Players will have no indication of what kind of PT they been paired with until they actually enter the instance. (this would require a 20~40-sec delay to join in-progress groups in order to match wait times for starting groups)

3) Penalty for withdrawing - I'd rather they not go this route...

Regardless of the above approaches, what is most needed is single-click DF acceptance. Payers should not have to re-accept every time someone drops.

[Errors]

-snip-

Page whatever previous to this one, I made this suggestion (your's is very similar):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1783524

I think it would solve most the problems people seem to be having at the moment with this type of behaviour.

Now people seem to be just arguing back and forth for the sake of arguing.

[Traek]

I think the best solution is a Withdraw penalty. Honestly it doesn't affect anyone but the person abusing the system, as it should. Make it so after three withdrawals, said person takes a 10 minute wait. This isn't over punishing, but enough to make someone think before hitting Withdraw that third time. It won't punish someone for an "oh crap" moment, if they had forgot to do something, as well as the poor sob grabbing his drink after waiting 30mins already. This also gives a good time frame for the line to move forward without everyone having to see this pesky problem.

Realistically you can't have a separate queue, as it will have more negative an effect on DF. Tanks will only want to queue for this and it will slow down the process overall. You can argue tanks will wait in line at that point, but so will everyone else trying to form a party, and even longer waits then now.

The other method of *blind entering* is not a good one *in my opinion*. I never liked this in WoW, and you can often times skip a boss you might have either wanted loot or philo tomes from. This also can happen when queuing as a full group keep in mind, and could screw a lot of people (including DD/heals) out of gear.

I'm tired of seeing tanks abuse this, and I am a tank main myself. I truly don't understand how people can be so inconsiderate of the 23 other players they keep pushing down the line. You can't tell me groups aren't missing out on a tank pop while you keep locking them in a queue over and over.

[Angiline]

I think the best solution is a Withdraw penalty. Honestly it doesn't affect anyone but the person abusing the system, as it should. Make it so after three withdrawals, said person takes a 10 minute wait. This isn't over punishing, but enough to make someone think before hitting Withdraw that third time. It won't punish someone for an "oh crap" moment, if they had forgot to do something, as well as the poor sob grabbing his drink after waiting 30mins already. This also gives a good time frame for the line to move forward without everyone having to see this pesky problem.

except no one is abusing anything.... SE hasnt said this practice isnt acceptable. So far as it stands now this is an aproved practiced untill said other wise. and they are not pushing anyone down any line. those people instantly are queued again at the front of the line. Thats why they get teh same person dropping queue over and over because there is NO one else in front of them and no one else trying to fill that role currently. how hard is that to understand!!!!!!!!!!!

This post proves my point.

How do you say such thing with such a straight face ?

because no other groups are a head of them and no other tanks are queueing they keep getting paired with this group. If the guy leaving never queued this group would STILL be waiting.

[Zantetsuken]

The other method of *blind entering* is not a good one *in my opinion*. I never liked this in WoW, and you can often times skip a boss you might have either wanted loot or philo tomes from. This also can happen when queuing as a full group keep in mind, and could screw a lot of people (including DD/heals) out of gear.

Blind entering would only put a player in in-progress parties if the player had checked the box in DF (as it does now). You'll never have to worry about skipping bosses/loot if you don't have it checked.


Personally, I think it's the best solution.

[Traek]

Blind entering would only put a player in in-progress parties if the player had checked the box in DF (as it does now). You'll never have to worry about skipping bosses/loot if you don't have it checked.


Personally, I think it's the best solution.

That is true, I was thinking a total blind enter without the option. If it were still an option then you are right this would be a comparable/good solution. The penalty method on a number of withdrawals would work similar, but still let people know if they are joining an in progress or not. I kinda looked at that as a win, as well as encouraging people looking for in progress groups to stagger their queues, instead of click off and on constantly.

[File2ish]

I think there should be a penalty for withdrawing. Nothing too harsh, like 2-5 minutes with no DF use for withdrawing 3 times in a row, and each subsequent withdrawal accumulates more total time per week or something. So first offense is say 5 minutes. Withdraws 3 more times = second offense: 10 minutes. Third 15, etc. It would deter "in progress fishing" and it's not much of a penalty. If they get in and leave duty it gives them the 30 minute wait, which is a far steeper penalty. Just a quick thought, kinda just popped in my head seeing this thread.

The join in progress button is there so if a duty gets partially abandoned for whatever reason the people who started the duty aren't completely screwed out of completing it, not so "I can get a quick run to get X gear or tomes with little to no effort."

[Kazamoto]

What law explicitly says, someone from the internet may not poke you in the eye with a spork?

From the FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement
3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

This, could be applied to the situation of DF-ditching as it disrupts the game experience of other players, and disrupts the the instance servers normal functions.




Also, according the the forum rules: http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=forum

There is nothing explicitly against linking the Lodestone Character sheet, that is linked to the user name of a player participating in a discussion on the lodestone forums.