"Need" should check ilevel

[Worm]

So I need to accept the views of anti-social and destructive people as well? Is that how community formed? Look I don't think everyone with a different view is wrong, but I do think some people are wrong. You obviously don't think anyone can ever be wrong and I'm sure you spend most of your time putting up with nasty abusive people in game because it would be contradictory to go on and on about how you should see things from everyone's point of view, but not expose yourself to the worst(I'm sorry, not worst, just different) the game has to offer. I don't want to play with or expose myself to those people, so I avoid them, simple.

[Maku]

Just to clear things up. I am Half Japanese Half American. Nothing to do with EU ^^ I just don't get to use my English very often. ^^

[ispano]

So I need to accept the views of anti-social and destructive people as well? Is that how community formed? Look I don't think everyone with a different view is wrong, but I do think some people are wrong. You obviously don't think anyone can ever be wrong and I'm sure you spend most of your time putting up with nasty abusive people in game because it would be contradictory to go on and on about how you should see things from everyone's point of view, but not expose yourself to the worst(I'm sorry, not worst, just different) the game has to offer. I don't want to play with or expose myself to those people, so I avoid them, simple.

And yet you try to lump in people who need for vanity, with people who need for anything else but progression. Vanity is a big part of RPGs, even if you yourself don't care for it or feel it's not as important. People like to look "cool" or whatnot, or like to have an item that looks neat to them. To many of these people, that can outweigh any stats it might give. It's why vanity systems get put into games.

[Worm]

Somehow I knew you'd accuse me of lumping in vanity players, it's almost like you're being disingenuous at this point. You say something like "no one is really wrong", I give an extreme example, and you attempt to refocus on vanity gear. This time you even chided me for "lumping people in", you're the one lumping people in by producing a defense that excuses everyone of responsibility. If your argument doesn't hold up for extreme examples it doesn't hold up, sorry. I mean how can you accuse me of lumping people together when you are saying there is no actual difference between needing for progression, vanity, seals, or spite? You're the one refusing to differentiate, not me.

I'll say again I really don't have a huge issue with people needing for vanity, but when you say "there's actually no limitation on why you should click need and all reasons are equally valid" I have a problem with you, because it's a bad viewpoint that puts a lot of bad behavior under this kind of umbrella of ignorance. You excuse all bad behavior in one fell swoop because you can't say "maybe a person for vanity should just talk to the group about their intentions", it's ridiculous.

[ispano]

-snip-

I never said I excused it. I shake my head when I people need an item in places like WP for seals. I just don't play with people like that. But you know? Those seals could very well go to something useful or important for that person. So while I may not agree and wouldn't play with the person, I understand why they are allowed to.

Also, you really did lump people together in the first post you made in the thread. You also stated that it should go to the person who needed it more. But you based who needed it more on your view that stats are more important. Basically you try to push rules you follow onto others with that type of comment. Even if you personally don't feel you are, that's what you said.

[Worm]

Eh, aren't you kind of getting confused? Do you really think Need lights up when a piece of gear can be worn so someone can get that item to turn it into seals?

Actually I think I've said that before, we're officially going in circles. You keep producing arguments as if I actually want to change the loot system (I don't) and you're basically agreeing with me even if you mince about the language. If you don't agree with the way someone acts, the word for that is 'wrong' ... you think they're acting wrong. Why would you shake your head at people needing for seals in WP otherwise? Why would you not play with that person? Those are acts of disapproval! Some reasons for needing are worse than others, that's the only thing I set out to show in this thread.