"Need" should check ilevel

[ispano]

Of course being a courteous and kind person is more proper than being a greedy person who doesn't care about others, I mean what kind of people do you prefer to surround yourself with? Either you really don't believe any improper behavior exists outside of breaking laws(which is crazy, murder would be wrong even if it wasn't illegal) or you're just flailing endlessly to win an internet argument throwing out whatever you can hoping it sticks.

I've thought about these types of things since the first time I played MMOs, maybe a good 10 years ago or so. You have a view on how things should work, ok, cool. It even matches mine. The problem is in a game where things like vanity, or using gear turn ins for currency is by DESIGN, your one view is not the only correct one. There are people who play for progression and stats. People who play to make their character look a certain way. People who play to RP(which relies somewhat on vanity as well). Maybe someone is low on seals and wants a certain GC item for varying reasons. All of these, regardless of you trying to deny it, are valid reasons, whether we like it or not. You just feel your view is more important, no, you demand your view be the most important. This is why you say what other people are doing is wrong, when it isn't. You're placing your personal preference above others.

Laws don't need to exist. Being that this game world is not OUR world, but SE's world, the same concepts don't always apply. It's like people who think they have free speech in game or on these forums. We don't.

You can say i'm flailing or any other attack you wish to toss out, it doesn't change the argument.

[Worm]

Your last few post did come off as a little all over the place to me, but saying you were flailing so much wasn't very nice and I'm sorry for saying that.

Well nothing is going to change your argument, like mine, we've just got a fundamental disconnect. You think right and wrong stops existing on the Internet(Or just MMOs?), I don't! Having a function to delete items or break it down into seals does not imply that's a proper reason to roll need on it. You and I won't ever agree. You just don't see how laden with context and history Need before Greed is, you view it in a vacuum and it leads you to this place where the only real wrong thing is exploiting.

I guess you probably hit on the most fundamental difference between you and I in your above post, and I can't believe I didn't realize it. You don't think it's your game. Certainly we don't own the servers but we are the community that gives it life, we are the animus that springs it to life. So of course it matters what we think is right and wrong. I've always felt ownership when I've played an MMO, I'm not paying a monthly fee to be a stranger to the world, I'm paying that fee to be a part of it. If you don't feel ownership or investment in the world it's only natural we can't find a common ground.

[tOnni3]

Wow, this thread is still active.

[Maku]

snip

You don't actually own anything. Your character and everything on it is property of SE. You can not sell or buy other accounts legally. We are more or less renting our characters.

[Mikedizzy]

This thread is pointless...I have iLv87 on my BARD but I am still going to farm eventually for the CT full set because I love the way it looks...don't try and tell me just because some other Bard is just coming up gets priority over me....that is just stupid. The NEED/GREED was created so that you could not use your own and just grab alt gear off people that need it for the job they are on...that is the only reason. Come on now...

[Worm]

You don't actually own anything. Your character and everything on it is property of SE. You can not sell or buy other accounts legally. We are more or less renting our characters.

You'd almost wonder why I wrote "feel ownership" ... almost.

[Maku]

You'd almost wonder why I wrote "feel ownership" ... almost.

You feeling is wrong though. The fact that you "feel" means it is an opinion and a wrong one at that since it is fact that we don't own it.

PS. I am really only commenting anymore to practice my English. ^^ This thread has been pretty good for working on my debating ability.

[BlueMage]

The WAR in there with dual haken isn't there for charity. And if it checked for iLvs, people would just purposely go in with shit gear, instead of wearing their best.

[Worm]

You feeling is wrong though. The fact that you "feel" means it is an opinion and a wrong one at that since it is fact that we don't own it.

PS. I am really only commenting anymore to practice my English. ^^ This thread has been pretty good for working on my debating ability.

Ah, well see there's a phrase "sense of ownership" which is used here in business, so for example employees might feel a sense of ownership at their workplace it just refers to feeling responsible for something as if it was your own business. So the word doesn't just refer to the legal state of owning, but further being or feeling responsible for something you might not actually own. Sometimes I forget we have combined US/EU forums here. http://www.macmillandictionary.com/u...ican/ownership http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/135518...From=ownership Uses like "owning up" or "owning one's actions" are in this vein as well.

[ispano]

Ah, well see there's a phrase "sense of ownership" which is used here in business, so for example employees might feel a sense of ownership at their workplace it just refers to feeling responsible for something as if it was your own business. So the word doesn't just refer to the legal state of owning, but further being or feeling responsible for something you might not actually own. Sometimes I forget we have combined US/EU forums here. http://www.macmillandictionary.com/u...ican/ownership http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/135518...From=ownership Uses like "owning up" or "owning one's actions" are in this vein as well.

Still doesn't matter. Until you stop refusing to accept other views, whilst still disagreeing with them, this will just keep going around and around. To use your own word of community, yeah a community. That means not just you and like minded individuals. There are all types. But you feel that only your view is "right" and people who go against that are doing something wrong. Doesn't really matter how you feel, if how you feel is that anyone who has a different view is wrong.