"Need" should check ilevel

[Worm]

By your rules, vanity players can't get rewards if they group with progression players.

Your loot system has no answer for segregation, other than appealing to community building. I think maybe I disagree that helping people progress is the only way to build community. I do a lot of DF, and DR. I'm friendly, explain tactics, make jokes, even though I'm probably not going to see them again. It's great if they progress, but I want to achieve my goals, too.

Denying loot to geared players discourages players mixing. Mixing and giving everyone rewards builds community, not telling some people to form their own groups.

You feel strongly about this, but I'm not convinced you have a system that works. Is your idea more advanced than "You should give people progression gear. If that prevents you from achieving your goals and discourages you from mixing, too bad. Sorry that you can't get the stuff you want but maybe someday everyone will be geared and you'll get a chance."?

I feel like you might be mistaking me for the OP, I don't want another loot system. I mean if you're so affable with everyone in DF and DR do you think mentioning at the beginning of a run you want to need on items for vanity purposes would go over so poorly? I'm not saying people can't need for vanity, I'm saying that the argument of "Of course people can need for vanity, actually it's their right to need ... for any reason!" is a bad way to justify vanity rolling.

You keep forgetting that this is about DF runs, random runs. Runs that don't have specific rules outside of what SE has put forth. It's the same as people wanting to force speed runs in DF/Roulette runs of CM/Prae. It's DF, you don't get to make the rules. You don't like it, there's other options.

I'm not forgetting that at all actually. If there aren't specific rules outside of what SE put forth how can you say it's NOT a speed run? There's a timer after all, shouldn't the timer imply you should be shooting for a record time? How can you possibly say this isn't a speed run when there's a timer RIGHT THERE!? I can go on like this forever. Look, you're flailing and I'm done.