"Need" should check ilevel

[Worm]

Hmm. Worm. Dunno how else to get it through to you. Everyone in the run has the same basic rights to the drops. Why someone wants the gear is completely irrelevant. It is a nice gesture if you pass on gear that presumably, benefits someone else more, subjectively, but it is neither morally wrong nor selfish if you don't.

If we went with your line of thinking, then some people have more rights to loot than others. That is just objectively wrong.

This is a circular argument I've seen going on since WoW LFD and you can delve into as much semantics as you want, but a guy who is going to use a piece of gear deserves it more than someone who is going to break it into seals. Objectivity, Subjectivity, and Philo 101 are what's really irrelevant, it is selfish to roll on a piece of gear someone needs as an upgrade to turn it into seals. That action is basically the definition of selfish, it's assigning the SMALLEST benefit to yourself as more important than the BIGGEST benefit to a stranger. If you want the gear for petty and selfish reasons ... you are being petty and selfish. Also don't give me some "Well needing on gear because it's an upgrade is just as greedy" nonsense. We are literally comparing the the most miniscule and most important impact gear can have. The most important thing gear can do is add stats to a player who doesn't have them. If I roll on a piece of gear with zero consideration for other players that's greedy.

This is implicit in the system, if designers (or anyone really) ever agreed with this "Anyone who can click Need deserves that loot" then why is there a Need/Greed system at all? Since apparently equipping the gear isn't any more valid of a reason than GC Seals, then why have we had this Need/Greed system for so long? Following this line of thought isn't main spec totally irrelevant? It's communally earned gear, it shouldn't matter if you can equip it or not! Well because the Need/Gree system is there because this is just the basic etiquette of these games, it's always been a given that people who can use gear should be among the first to receive it, some automatic system that lets you roll on that gear despite that isn't some magic panacea that alleviates you from this etiquette. Like I said before, I might not know where the Salad Fork goes but I'm not going to launch into some rant about how mealtime etiquette is objectively wrong since there is no 'true' way to eat, nor would I expect to not get dirty looks for walking into a Steakhouse and eating a sirloin with my bare hands.

You guys come around with these arguments that are just as focused on who deserves loot more (generally you) but you dress it up as if Need doesn't imply anything and there's nothing bad or disrespectful about "Needing to click the Need button". Of course clicking Need because you had a small compulsion to click Need is less of a need than clicking Need because you need that upgrade to improve your stats. If you need to subscribe to some absolute moral relativism where nothing is actually "wrong" to justify your actions are you really justifying anything? You're just justifying everything in one giant copout to excuse being a gear queen.

Yes, recently I took the Ultima Choaker of Healing because I want it for my collection and Vanity (and it was the first thing from the fight I could actually Need on after many wins) despite having the Allagan Choaker of Healing; the SCH (I was WHM) was not happy, but he spent a good bit of the fight on the ground and honestly did not deserve it.

I think this is a great example. Simply you made a moralistic judgement and I don't agree with this sense of morals, this is all I'm saying. You imply you might have not needed on it if he had performed well, or that somehow his bad performance justifies your needing on a piece he actually needed so you could put it in a vanity set. Implying that this isn't something we're allowed to call wrong, because of a smoke screen of "How do you define Need?" is just ridiculous.

If you earnestly believe gear is better spent going into your vanity set than giving stats to a player you deem unworthy then fine. It's your life and no one can stop you. Though I wish people would simply realize they're making a choice here where they put a very small benefit for themselves above a measurable benefit for a stranger. All the "Nothing is true, every roll is permitted" defenses just fall flat.

EDIT: Sorry if you were trying to reply while I was fixing up a few things with the post. I'm done with it now.