Warrior Tanking

[Zegreiart]

Why would the fire that made you write this guide extinguish within a month?

I can only give you my opinion on the matter. I signed up to be a warrior because self healing appealed to me quite a bit. It wasn't great, and it needed lots of work, but I was willing to ride the storm in hopes that they'd take the time to actually make it work with %HP returns, or absorbs, or something! However, I eventually decided that I didn't want to wait another month or so because I had selected the wrong class at start, only to hear, and then experience, that it was paladin or bust, so I quit in October and only came back a few days ago to see these changes.

What I got was a bandaid fix (granted it works, don't get me wrong) that makes me feel like paladin v2.0. After a few days of playing (NEET here, so by playing, I mean lots of it) I don't have that same drive I used to. First time I hit IB, I was dismayed by it. I expected that somewhat large number to pop up. Did I get it? Nope. Saw a nifty little buff for 20% damage reduction that lasts 6 or so seconds. I thought, "hey, not bad!" Then I started thinking about it and looked at my other abilities and how they were changed up or left alone.

I saw the SP buff and thought it was great, but I still don't understand why it gives such a pittance of healing. I looked at Bloodbath, nothing happened there. So I fired up the patch notes and spent an hour or so looking over everything and doing some thinking. Eventually I came to the conclusion that I should have just leveled a paladin. Nothing we do is unique compared to them. We stepped into their territory, giving up identity for a quick (and easy) fix.

As much as they want a thriving game (and I do too), this is borderline unacceptable to me. %HP returns, absorption, anything like that would have made me happy. Because of the identity of the class. I want to really dig in and get into the game, but it's ridiculously hard for me to do when I feel like another class in different gear mechanically. IB is our lifeline. It is the one thing we can reliably do to handle predictable burst. During beta when I saw all the small bits of self healing and such, I was excited. I was impressed another company wanted to have diversity in their tanks (especially since there's only two).

It'd take lots of work (more than SE apparently cares to do, but that's just me upset about it). I have plenty of ideas that'll never see the light of day to make it work, genuinely because I feel SE is very happy where things are. At this rate, I'm not sure I really want to wait on another tanking class and hope it's not only different, but has actual effort put into making it work so it doesn't step on the toes of paladins.

Warriors have a very fun kit to use, but mechanically, I'd rather just play a paladin instead. That said, I won't because their kit looks boring as hell with neat effects tied to them. I mean, not seriously anyway. Might level one up so I can see the CDs, effects, and how their abilities work so I can just draw up a way to make self healing work for a warrior treating returned HP/absorbs like a %dmg reduction effect just for my own peace of mind.

To you other warriors, please, I'm begging you, help me get over this dark cloud and enjoy the class again, because at this rate, I'm just not sure and it really sucks.

[Skull_Angel]

snip

2.0 WAR had always been about Wrath management; the only glimmer of self-healing we had was through Inner Beast, with Bloodbath and Storm's Path being a trickle at best, no more than icing on the cake that is WAR.

[Zegreiart]

2.0 WAR had always been about Wrath management; the only glimmer of self-healing we had was through Inner Beast, with Bloodbath and Storm's Path being a trickle at best, no more than icing on the cake that is WAR.

Kinda feels like you didn't really read much of anything I wrote. I never once mentioned I have issues with managing wrath stacks. It's more of a loss of identity and lack of interest in the direction of things. I wanted to see that trickle become stronger, wanted it to be more. Honestly, I wouldn't even call that icing on the cake, because it isn't. It's not even noticeable in the grand scheme of things. But that's alright, I had a moderately long conversation with a few people. It's not ideal, nor what I want out of things, but I do feel better about the situation. Just a bit disappointed overall, but I'll live.

[Kitru]

Kinda feels like you didn't really read much of anything I wrote. I never once mentioned I have issues with managing wrath stacks.

And that's the issue. You're focused upon the mechanic as opposed to the playstyle. A class is defined by its playstyle, not by the mechanics used. WAR has always been defined by Wrath generation and management rather than the self healing that you (and many other people) focused upon to the exclusion of pretty much anything else. All of the WAR self healing could be removed completely and be replaced by more mitigation and it wouldn't do anything to the WAR playstyle. The only difference is the specific mechanic used. The Defiance benefits could be replaced by a flat 20% DR (yes, *slight* buff, but that's beside the point) and, even though WAR would see smaller heals on it and wouldn't get to experience the huge max hp numbers, it wouldn't change how WAR played because 20% DR does the exact same thing as 25% + hp and 25% +healing.

Basically, you focused on the wrong aspect of WAR when choosing it. You focused upon a mechanic rather than the playstyle. Mechanics are *always* fluid and prone to changing, especially for balance purposes (which is what you're perturbed about; self-healing wasn't effective so a majority of it was replaced with flat mitigation) but playstyle is a relative constant (changing overall playstyle requires massive changes to a class/job).

[Nalou]

A class is defined by its playstyle, not by the mechanics used. WAR has always been defined by Wrath generation and management rather than the self healing that you (and many other people) focused upon to the exclusion of pretty much anything else.

Actually no. Proactive tanking vs reactive tanking is a playstyle, more than a mechanic.
2.0 warrior was waiting for spike damage to happen THEN popped Inner Beast to recover.
2.1 warrior tries to pop Inner Beast BEFORE the damage to reduce it (which is a lot harder, you cannot simply hold on wrath till something happen, you have to know when something happens and anticipate). This impacts the way a warrior manages wrath, because the goal is now to have wrath built for specific points in the fight.
So the playstyle changed.

Let's say we switch Inner Beast on a 20s CD with no wrath involved. The mechanics would be different (no wrath to manage), but the playstyle of the class would pretty much be the same: chain combos for enmity, debuff, buff and pop special ability.

So the nature of Inner Beast (reactive or proactive) is a playstyle.
The mechanic is building wrath or dealing with another resource like timers, tp or mp.

[Hitokirinomad]

Actually no. Proactive tanking vs reactive tanking is a playstyle, more than a mechanic.
2.0 warrior was waiting for spike damage to happen THEN popped Inner Beast to recover.
2.1 warrior tries to pop Inner Beast BEFORE the damage to reduce it (which is a lot harder, you cannot simply hold on wrath till something happen, you have to know when something happens and anticipate). This impacts the way a warrior manages wrath, because the goal is now to have wrath built for specific points in the fight.
So the playstyle changed.

Let's say we switch Inner Beast on a 20s CD with no wrath involved. The mechanics would be different (no wrath to manage), but the playstyle of the class would pretty much be the same: chain combos for enmity, debuff, buff and pop special ability.

So the nature of Inner Beast (reactive or proactive) is a playstyle.
The mechanic is building wrath or dealing with another resource like timers, tp or mp.

lI rejoiced to see a logical argument against Kitru on these forums, because the fact that it *can* be done resonates in my soul.

However I disagree. The crux of the argument is the same as the 'WAR is built around self-healing'. Inner Beast. Inner Beast is one skill that does not truly define the playstyle as reactive. The only difference between the *timing* of Inner Beast now and then, if the delay of one GCD. You still had to get your stacks up or Infuriate before the big hit, you just fired the IB in the GCD after the hit. Now you fire it off the GCD before the hit. You still have to know the hit is coming, you still have to preemptively prepare your resource (be proactive). Heck, if there are no fights with a timed big hit, you get to use IB even more because you don't have to worry about the overheal. Generally speaking, none of the other WAR skills are as useful reactively (ToB can be used before or after, but using it before prevents the OHKO).

The reason that Kitru says that WAR is centered around wrath stacks is BECAUSE of the last line of your post. Wrath is another resource like timers or MP...which you use to increase your damage, do a big AOE hit, or increase your mitigation. It's also an exclusive resource to WAR, which strongly suggests it's what the class is built around (versus one skill that is consumed by said resource). DRG = Jumps, MNK = GL, WAR = Wrath. Losing the requirement to manage wrath would drastically change the playstyle of the class because those stacks are a limited resource that you have to have up when you need them, and have to make the choice on the proper skill to use them on. If WAR didn't manage wrath, then SC = CoS, Unchained = Extraneous DPS Cooldown, and WAR >> PLD.

[LordTiberiusRex]

I'm quite certain that nobody cares, but I'm quitting.

Anyone who wishes to copy+paste this guide to continue it is more than welcome to. I do ask that you give credit where appropriate and make sure no one else has made a copy before you though, as we don't need 17 copies.

Thanks guys, it was fun while it lasted.

When 2.2 rolls out, I'll consider it.

[Skull_Angel]

I never once mentioned I have issues with managing wrath stacks.

Identity is mostly perspective; the only "true identity" we have/had for WAR is what SE has given us, WAR is the "show-off" tank. I'm sorry you don't enjoy WAR any more because of a few adjustments, sure it's a shame, but the basic playstyle hasn't changed.

snip

Actually, proactive v. reactive is defined by class/job mechanics; while those (mechanics) can define a playstyle, it usually requires a stronger emphasis on the ones that would define so (2.0 WAR was not quite sure what it was, imho). A class's/job's playstyle is defined by the sum of it's whole, at the core of WAR is Wrath.