The Programming of FFXIV? [somewhat lengthy]

[Chezen]

Ah, I see. I'm sorry, that's not quite what I intended to say. I meant that, in terms of the game, with bugs/errors and whatnot, the game still runs well. As in, yes every now and then a quest doesn't work properly, but overall they work quite well. I wasn't talking about the "playerbase" majority.

Also, yes it is definitely not a good idea to whip something out without thinking. My question centers around, once they have thought it out, why does it take so long? At least in particular about certain bugs/features.

My appologies then.

It depends on what you are talking about I guess. I've seen them fix little bugs here and there in the patch notes.

But most of what you mention, they seem to be bigger things that would either require animations, or affect the community in some way.

[Delsus]

The problem with the code for a game is that its huge, but thats obvious.

Also the crystal tools engine was mainly designed for the PS3 and 360, it had to be adapted to PC for 14 which can cause problems.

I would say that there could be alot of bad or misleading comments in the code which is causing unforseen bugs when things get implemented.

Also as other people have said, most game run on other engines that have been around for years and have been able to get adapted easily.

Also what you said about the core changes when cataclysm came out, a full expansion is usually in development for atleast a year, usually when a game has been released or an expansion has been released there already working on the next.

There are alot of reasons for software development to take awhile or fall behind schedule.

People should stop blaming everything on the engine which actually works it just hasnt been completly adapted for PC yet.

Also lets not forget how tightly knit together the code for a game has been, one change can dramatically affect code further in, say they decide to add delay to weapons in auto attack, and miss type a variable, that can take ages to find when its not working as intended, somthing that looks like an easy fix say they want to add another option to the menu, seems simple, however it can cause the whole menu to get messed up and needs fixing

Some of the problems are from the core coding, but i would say more are unforseen errors while they are editing the code (possibly due to bad comments)

[Vafilor]

The problem with the code for a game is that its huge, but thats obvious.

Also the crystal tools engine was mainly designed for the PS3 and 360, it had to be adapted to PC for 14 which can cause problems.

I would say that there could be alot of bad or misleading comments in the code which is causing unforseen bugs when things get implemented.

Also as other people have said, most game run on other engines that have been around for years and have been able to get adapted easily.

Also what you said about the core changes when cataclysm came out, a full expansion is usually in development for atleast a year, usually when a game has been released or an expansion has been released there already working on the next.

There are alot of reasons for software development to take awhile or fall behind schedule.

People should stop blaming everything on the engine which actually works it just hasnt been completly adapted for PC yet.

Also lets not forget how tightly knit together the code for a game has been, one change can dramatically affect code further in, say they decide to add delay to weapons in auto attack, and miss type a variable, that can take ages to find when its not working as intended, somthing that looks like an easy fix say they want to add another option to the menu, seems simple, however it can cause the whole menu to get messed up and needs fixing

Some of the problems are from the core coding, but i would say more are unforseen errors while they are editing the code (possibly due to bad comments)

Yes, I've heard that the programmers for SE have a lot of experience with console programming, as opposed to PC, and that this time they started with the PC first as opposed to XI where they did the ps2 first. And with what you said about the engine being designed for consoles, the two would make a bit of sense as for some of the issues.

Here's the link from where I saw it:

http://www.qj.net/qjnet/mmorpg/produ...ggest-bug.html

And yes, I'm quite aware other companies use engines already developed, its somewhat logical after all, to use one that you know works well.

I'm not blaming the engine by any means, I'm merely wondering if its hard to work with. An engine may be very efficient, but cryptic to work with after all.

As for your recent addition: core changes can rather upset the entirety of the code, so changing the battle system being lengthy is understandable. As for the menu however, adding a new portion to it, if properly coded, should not be a hassle. Actually it should be pretty easy as it should have functions to do that already.

[Delsus]

Yes, I've heard that the programmers for SE have a lot of experience with console programming, as opposed to PC, and that this time they started with the PC first as opposed to XI where they did the ps2 first. And with what you said about the engine being designed for consoles, the two would make a bit of sense as for some of the issues.

Here's the link from where I saw it:

http://www.qj.net/qjnet/mmorpg/produ...ggest-bug.html

And yes, I'm quite aware other companies use engines already developed, its somewhat logical after all, to use one that you know works well.

I'm not blaming the engine by any means, I'm merely wondering if its hard to work with. An engine may be very efficient, but cryptic to work with after all.

As for your recent addition: core changes can rather upset the entirety of the code, so changing the battle system being lengthy is understandable. As for the menu however, adding a new portion to it, if properly coded, should not be a hassle. Actually it should be pretty easy as it should have functions to do that already.

As I said I could imagine things arent commented correctly, apart from that I couldnt imagine it would be much more cryptic.

Also very few games design the menus to be edited, unless the UI is customisable, for most if the menu gets changed you will need to alter the borders of the menu and possibly change the font size or it would look broken, if the menus were made with expansion in mind the only thing they can use is blanks in the menus which looks really bad, so they just decide to re-size the borders instaid if they need to change the menus atall.

Sorry if the last paragraph was hard to read.

[Vafilor]

As I said I could imagine things arent commented correctly, apart from that I couldnt imagine it would be much more cryptic.

Also very few games design the menus to be edited, unless the UI is customisable, for most if the menu gets changed you will need to alter the borders of the menu and possibly change the font size or it would look broken, if the menus were made with expansion in mind the only thing they can use is blanks in the menus which looks really bad, so they just decide to re-size the borders instaid if they need to change the menus atall.

Sorry if the last paragraph was hard to read.

Maybe its the comments.

I think I'm getting my point across poorly. Let me try something else.

First example is for those with programming experience.

If you've ever programmed, you realize there is a difference between Visual C, C++, C#, Java, HTML, and Assembly.
It is much easier to write something in HTML or Visual C than it is in C++ or Java, or certainly Assembly. However, if written properly, good code is easy to maintain, understand, and modify.
My question is if they didn't do that. Did they, instead of making it easy on themselves, they wrote it very cryptically. So its more akin to writing in Assembly rather than C++. And does that contribute to longer times for fixes/additions?

To Those without programming experience.

You can make pancakes buying the batter pre-made from a store. Its easy and convenient.
Or you can make your own batter. Not so hard, but more time consuming.
Did SE go out and make their own batter, and do that for each new pancake meal?

Hopefully that clarifies it... now I want pancakes...

@ Delsus
As for your comment about the UI. Not necessarily. They don't have to leave blanks. A good class would be designed so that its not hard to add a new menu sub-option, it just appends, no need for a graphical holding place. They can just add it as a subcomponent. Its just a button that relays messages, nothing intensely hard.

[Chezen]

To Those without programming experience.

You can make pancakes buying the batter pre-made from a store. Its easy and convenient.
Or you can make your own batter. Not so hard, but more time consuming.
Did SE go out and make their own batter, and do that for each new pancake meal?

Hopefully that clarifies it... now I want pancakes...

Lol, well they wrote their own graphics software so it's possible, but I doubt anyone here is going to know. I guess you mean this is a question for the devs?

Gonna go make pancakes now...

[Gramul]

We really have no idea.

It could be the programming, it could be the planning, it could be the designing, it could be poor communication, or any combination of these factors.

Considering Square tends to be really secretive about their workings, we can only speculate. Anyone claiming to know exactly what's going on without having any real connections to the developers is likely mistaken.

[Vafilor]

We really have no idea.

It could be the programming, it could be the planning, it could be the designing, it could be poor communication, or any combination of these factors.

Considering Square tends to be really secretive about their workings, we can only speculate. Anyone claiming to know exactly what's going on without having any real connections to the developers is likely mistaken.

I just hope it's not. I just hope that, overall, they didn't make it so that adding/fixing things is such a monumental task that they have to devote great lengths of time to it out of necessity, because it is that difficult.

Seeing as what you say is true about SE being rather secretive, this thread is only good for speculation it seems, and thus won't accomplish much.

Thank you all for your responses, some of them actually pertained to the topic.

Cheers