The Programming of FFXIV? [somewhat lengthy]

[Vafilor]

Added summations in bullet point form at the end. I admit your omnipotence Joe.

With all of the problems FFXIV has had, the UI, Battle System, Market Wards, downloader, etc. I've been wondering, it's not the underlying programming that makes it difficult to fix, is it?

I recall that one of the reasons FFXI took so long to update was because it had so many different consoles to work on firstly, and that led to testing to make sure it worked well on all of them. But also the programming itself didn't make it exactly easy to add new content. (Similar to adding music files for Metal Gear for the PSX if any of you are familiar with it, it was a pain according to the developers).
Further, it was mentioned that in this new FFXIV they planned ahead and made it in turn, easy to add new content, fixing one of the banes of working with FFXI.


So I wonder, did they actually do this? Or is it still rather difficult to work with it? I mean, if you look at any game files, you'll see "normal" names, such as music, textures, etc. In WOW, for example, there's a Interface folder (can you guess what its for?) In FFXIV you see Letters adjoined with Numbers... very little words. Is this due to the translation? Or to somewhat feebly ward off hackers or somesuch?
Not to mention, when the first patches started coming out, even relatively simple sounding fixes took weeks. And other things that sound simple to fix, are still not fixed, or are in the coming, but again taking a long time.

From the little programming experience I have, one of the first things you learn is to write easy, readable code, that is modular, and easy to maintain. I mean that's one of the major reasons for the OOP (Object Oriented Programming) style of programming. Its self contained, easy to work with, and assists greatly in management of large code.

So I just don't understand, and if someone could clarify it it'd be greatly appreciated, why simple things take a ridiculously long time to fix. And features take a long time to get implemented. Of course there is the planning process and thinking things through, that's understandable. But why does a targeting system take so long to fix? Why does a UI take so long to get implemented? Or bugs in it fixed? Game companies have been know to drastically alter their UI in two weeks or so. Why is this one taking so long? WOW allows the user to modify the UI as much as they like, and it still works well.

I mean, for an experienced programmer to throw together an Auction House system shouldn't take too long. To throw together something basic shouldn't take more than a week or so. Granted to make sure it works well would take some time but... more than two months is.... well... ridiculous. And they've spent more time trying to fix the Market Wards.

It just boggles my mind that other MMOs with smaller teams can whip out more features in a shorter amount of time, and more fixes. I know that planning takes time, but come on, there's fixes everyone agrees about that take [hyperbole] ages to get implemented. Is the code that hard to work with? Is that why they brought in a New Gen programming specialist to the development team?

As an example, in the new expansion pack for WOW they changed the ways the classes worked (not too significantly but a pretty decent change for some classes), redesigned a lot of the original world, and added new types of quests, not just in content, but in style. Such as using a vehicle, quests that continue out in the field once you finish them, instances where the environment changes just for you, etc. Granted there are a few bugs, but for the majority it works well.

If anyone can clarify these that'd be great. Because I am rather... baffled at the time it takes for them to accomplish things, and if I'm wrong, I'd like to know.

Tl;Dr: Is the programming so bad that its a pain to work with the game to add/fix anything?

• FFXI was supposedly hard to work with, in terms of coding.
• System files oddly/cryptically named, due to translation/some other reason?
• Simple fixes take a long time.
• Modern programming is supposed to be easy to work with.
• I recognize that planning takes time.
• Other companies have been known to address similar issues much faster
• A basic Auction House shouldn't take long to make. More time has been spent on fixing Market
• Reason for New Gen programmer addition to development team?

P.S. Why in the world did they use DirectX 9? 10 has been out for quite a while... Its not a huge thing but... why? Even WOW added DX 11 support recently...

P.P.S Why in the world can we only trade 4 items at a time? Even FFXI had 8.

[TheVedis]

a few things to note

games with much crappier graphics take less work to update graphics and add new graphical features in
when you have more detail, more work needs to be done on that end


also, alot of these "other games" are using code copied from other mmos as is*coughrift* so why it seems they are making the game "faster" they are in fact just adjusting the code to their needs faster

also, im curious as to who yoour main is, this is obviously a post made on an alternate account so you could hide who you really are

[Chezen]

As an example, in the new expansion pack for WOW they changed the ways the classes worked (not too significantly but a pretty decent change for some classes), redesigned a lot of the original world, and added new types of quests, not just in content, but in style. Such as using a vehicle, quests that continue out in the field once you finish them, instances where the environment changes just for you, etc. Granted there are a few bugs, but for the majority it works well.

On this I don't see the same. They redesigned things in a couple of years yes, and it might not be that buggy, but it has hardly been a hit to everyone.

There's more to redesigning than rewriting code.

[Vafilor]

Yes, it is true that to add higher detail takes more time. But for things like bug fixes that don't involve models, that doesn't apply. And that's one of my key questions.

Unless I am quite unaware of how the gaming industry works, I don't think another company besides Blizzard can "copy" their code onto a different game. They may use similar engines, sure. But they can't copy it (as far as I'm aware). Rift is certainly very similar, but that doesn't mean the code is the same.

And you are quite wrong on that regard. This is my main. I've merely been thinking about this quite a while and finally decided to make a post of it. I've browsed these forums a bit, but haven't posted until now.

[TheVedis]

On this I beg to differ. They redesigned things in a couple of years yes, and it might not be that buggy, but it has hardly been a hit to everyone.

There's more to redesigning than rewriting code.

dont forget how they literaly "break" the game and all the classes for months in the middle of doing it all right before each expansion

[Joeking]

Some things to consider...

• Paragraph spacing ( seem to have done this )
• Use of bullet points would of conveyed this better
• Every aspect of the game is intended
• Slow and Steady wins the race
• Square's forte is CG cutscenes not gameplay (Debatable)
• Blizzard is the supreme ruler of the MMO universe

[viion]

I think one of SE's problems is they dont like being offered help, or getting outside support. If it came down to it they'd have 1 guy doing everything just to ensure everything done in house by their employees.

A lot of other big MMO's borrow engines from companies who dedicate themselves to building and use a lot of community support, for example TERA is built in the Unreal Engine, so they didnt have to make the engine they just mod it, which anyone who is an UDK expert could probably do, just add more people onto it and it gets done quicker. Aion runs on Crysis 1 engine, which is freely available thus it was easy to mod up private servers and emulate scripts using Java. But even XI to this day doesnt have a fully-retail like private server and is still getting developed on by various people as it has no grounds.

[Vafilor]

On this I don't see the same. They redesigned things in a couple of years yes, and it might not be that buggy, but it has hardly been a hit to everyone.

There's more to redesigning than rewriting code.

Could you elaborate what you mean by "it hasn't been a hit to everyone"?

And yes, I'm quite aware of that. But well written code makes the process quite faster, or poorly written code makes it tedious. My question is on the code itself.



@ Joeking

Yeah, I didn't realize my indenting didn't make a difference on the post, so I quickly fixed that, and I see what you did with the bulletpoints there... yes, would make it easier to read.

[Chezen]

Could you elaborate what you mean by "it hasn't been a hit to everyone"?

And yes, I'm quite aware of that. But well written code makes the process quite faster, or poorly written code makes it tedious. My question is on the code itself.

Well, lol, the new expansion caused me to quit.

Not that I think WoW is falling anytime soon, or that forums are accurate pictures of the game community... but I have been keeping on eye on wow now and then, and I still see plenty of dissent. Plus they had an actual fall in subscriptions. Not enough to phase them, but significant enough when an expansion just came out.

My point is, it's not a good idea to just "whip something up" without making sure of how it will affect the game.

Btw, I'm sorry it sounds like I'm dismissing your post, I'm really not. I just think there is more to it than that.

[Vafilor]

Well, lol, the new expansion caused me to quit.

Not that I think WoW is falling anytime soon, or that forums are acurate pictures of the game community... but I have been keeping on eye on wow now and then, and I still see plenty of dissent. Plus they had an actual fall in subscriptions. Not enough to phase them, but significant enough when an expansion just came out.

My point is, it's not a good idea to just "whip something up" without making sure of how it will affect the game.

Ah, I see. I'm sorry, that's not quite what I intended to say. I meant that, in terms of the game, with bugs/errors and whatnot, the game still runs well. As in, yes every now and then a quest doesn't work properly, but overall they work quite well. I wasn't talking about the "playerbase" majority.

Also, yes it is definitely not a good idea to whip something out without thinking. My question centers around, once they have thought it out, why does it take so long? At least in particular about certain bugs/features.