Why do they try to make tanking harder?

[Shikiseki]

just recently started leveling both of my tanks since I couldn't decide and I had to facepalm several times.
Leveled up as SMN/SCH most of the time so I had no idea that tanks had to deal with some really bad dps (just running ahead of the tank right into monsters, not following the kill order, way-to-overgeared myth players, wasting stun resistance etc).
Even healers can really screw tanking at lower levels really bad, like having Eos go super whispering dawn before the pull or WHMs spamming Medica to fix scratch damage.


That said, so far, MRD > GLA in lower level dungeons. Overpower helps a LOT and I feel like it's definitely stronger than flash, combined with bloodbath, that str+ buff and maim, it's a beast!
As for GLA, I really have to rely on spamming flash like a halogen lamp every rotation, sometimes even twice or thrice right after the pull because I feel really unsafe without it. Then you just combo for the riot blade mp regeneration while throwing a flash after each combo ( or after every second depending on your mp ).

I really hope it gets better later on with Shield oath etc. But it's not a hard class if everyone has around the dungeon-designed level range and follows the simple rules while keeping an eye on the hate bar once in a while for the sake of the whole party!

[Moirear]

A problem I've been identifying lately are these people coming in from duty roulette with endgame builds and ending up in low-level dungeons they've done maybe 1-2 times, and no clue that their job uses different strategies and rotations at lower levels than what they have gotten used to as standard when spamming WP/AK speedruns or repeating other endgame content ad nauseum. Then they end up in these dungeons with undergeared players or newbies and use inefficient combos, don't know certain things about the dungeon or mechanics they could explain, and are actually more of a hindrance than help to those others. They don't realize that tanks have less enmity options, healers have less healing options, and dps are generally very limited in their overall options.

On a related note, yes, a lot of players are actually worse at the game for having FATE-grinded their way up quickly instead of having done every dungeon about 5 times for their job to really get practice with it on all levels.

[epryn]

That said, so far, MRD > GLA in lower level dungeons. Overpower helps a LOT and I feel like it's definitely stronger than flash, combined with bloodbath, that str+ buff and maim, it's a beast!
As for GLA, I really have to rely on spamming flash like a halogen lamp every rotation, sometimes even twice or thrice right after the pull because I feel really unsafe without it. Then you just combo for the riot blade mp regeneration while throwing a flash after each combo ( or after every second depending on your mp ).

I found this, too. Especially since marauder can cross class flash and provoke while gladiator gets no useful threat skills from marauder abilities.

I've also noticed some people who just don't seem to get that "not doing damage" is not the only way to be a bad dps. Also, grand company gear. The set bonuses make it that much more likely that someone in a GC set will be overgeared despite level synch.

On a related note, yes, a lot of players are actually worse at the game for having FATE-grinded their way up quickly instead of having done every dungeon about 5 times for their job to really get practice with it on all levels.

While this is true, it's also true that a good player, even if they did FATEs exclusively to level, will learn what they're doing wrong in dungeons quickly. A bad player will continue to be bad despite the evidence and even polite advice on how they can correct their mistakes.

[Moirear]

While this is true, it's also true that a good player, even if they did FATEs exclusively to level, will learn what they're doing wrong in dungeons quickly. A bad player will continue to be bad despite the evidence and even polite advice on how they can correct their mistakes.

Always nice in theory, but there is no real substitute for skill gained from practice. Your umpteenth run of a dungeon with the exact same job will have ingrained in you the sense to the carry out the perfect action in any moment when something unexpected happens and everything else fails, and possibly carry the entire group with your ability. The whole idea of the low-level dungeon roulette is to help new or inexperienced players when more people pile up for endgame content and have no incentive to re-run those dungeons for random strangers. Sadly, some of these people are being carried by the newbies and the actually experienced players, and are too ignorant to realize it.

[Seif]

If you want someone to learn new skills don't be an idiot by not healing them. Take the time to write one line what they could do to be more efficient.

Let's be real here: we all suck at some point.
I for one would still be just TERRIBLE if one guy in df hadn't wrote "use defiance more".
That's all. No ragequitting nor insults just a tiny bit of help that allowed us to make it through.

Same in XI. It's the other players that taught me how to play. Deaths not so much.

Be civil. It's not that hard.

[Squishton]

I actually did the same thing yesterday. As, a Lv. 45 WHM, I went and levelled GLD to 15. I'm always paranoid about trying new dungeons or a dungeon as a new class. It is especially scary when you know that the vast majority of people are going to be people who are at Lv. 50 and just want to do a super fast dungeon for roulette. Whenever I do something new, I use the party finder so I can make sure that the people I play with know that I'm not going to be super, great highly geared player.

I did Satasha once like this, and it still terrified me. Trying to keep track of enmity while trying to use your skills while trying to keep track of targets can be a lot.

Main point: If you are going into something new, make sure the people you play with know it is new to you. If you go into a dungeon/guildheist/whatever, and someone says they are new to it, be patient and provide a good environment for the person to learn.

[Sylve]

Whenever i do my low level roulette, i offer advice to anyone who isn't doing well. I'm polite with it, and lately I've only ever gotten thanks for it. Hell, even when I'm in higher dungeons leveling my Paladin, people are generally appreciative of tips i give.

That said, i never run into the kind of people you are. You must have some crap luck.

[Rhysati]

As a level 50 WHM and PLD, I can honestly say that I don't have any of the issues mentioned here. I do low-level runs all the time due to roulette and routinely find it just as easy to hold threat there as I would at 50. Yes, I get DPS that attack the wrong mobs. Yes, I've had a healer who only cast medica(and only did so AFTER the mobs were dead). But, I've honestly not had any real problems when it came to maintaining threat on things. Make sure you are doing the following:

1. Mark the kill order(If someone doesn't follow it, you can still usually solve that problem by just alternating your threat combo. Do NOT use your mana combo so you can spam Flash. Flash is a terrible threat generator and is meant for building some threat on the mobs you aren't currently fighting and helping keep the healer from pulling them. If someone is directly attacking another mob, using flash is probably the worst way possible to try and hold the aggro on it. Worst case scenario, you lose the aggro on a mob that is being attacked out of order. If you can't get it back, it's not a huge deal. Let the dps tank it.

2. Use your threat combo(2-hit or 3-hit if you have it) and then use flash. Repeat. If everyone is focusing the correct mob, flash between your threat combo cycle so the healer doesn't pull AND you have tons of pre-threat built.

3. Most importantly: Be respectful and helpful. If someone is doing something wrong and making your job harder, let them know. Just don't be a jerk about it.

[HellRyu]

I had a DPS try and lead through this one dungeon and he always thought he was chuck norris, he hit everything didn't wait for anyone and would run off to the next set of mobs before we even finished the one we were currently fighting and even when we told him to stop and just wait for everyone else he didn't listen. We ended up just ignoring he was even there and finished the dungeon with him dead somewhere. It's annoying but you will always have a bad apple somewhere.

[Raymeo]

They're the ones with the problem, not you. That is... unless the DPS that keeps pulling aggro is able to tank just fine, which might actually be the case if you're in a level 16 dungeon. If nobody's dying, then nobody will blame you if you just kick back and go with it.

Otherwise...

let them die

Pretty much this.

Of course first, if they are causing the party to die and it's not a simple accident, you should point out the problem and ask them nicely to stop. Assuming they don't stop though, then your solution is to simply stop enabling their counterproductive play. Let them die. One of three things will happen: (1) Ideally, they'll get the point and quit the act. Thank them for fixing the problem and resume enjoyable play. (2) They'll rage quit. No skin off your back. Worth it to wait a few minutes for a replacement instead of banging your head against a wall for an hour. (3) Unlikely worst-case scenario, they don't learn, and they don't rage quit. Instead they stubbornly and deliberately continue acting as they were, and they do so just to spite you. In this case you simply vote-kick them for griefing. You've asked them nicely to stop, and the party saw the whole thing. You'll get the votes you need. Again, worth it to wait a few minutes for a replacement instead of enabling a jerk and crippling your fun for an hour.

Lower level tanking is a pain, but thankfully the lower level dungeons are also very forgiving. Mistakes shouldn't be too dangerous until you get to Brayflox's Longstop, but I promise that holding threat gets A LOT easier by then as you start unlocking better abilities. Until then just stick with it and do the best that you can. The dungeons that you're seeing now are basically training grounds -- mistakes are okay here, so don't sweat them for now. Focus instead on building up your groove and practicing good habits (positioning, communication, monitoring threat on multiple targets, paying attention to enemy cast bars). Somebody mentioned marking kill orders -- this is something else that you should practice now, because it's definitely a good habit to learn, but don't expect your markers to be followed just yet. The other players in these early dungeons are still feeling out their roles as well, and again -- these first few dungeons are very forgiving, so other people might not see the need for such focus. Don't let them get to you. Practice for yourself. As for basic ability rotation, you typically can't go wrong if you pull with Shield Lob (ranged GLD quest reward), Flash the pack of mobs once or twice (so healers don'to pull hate before you can secure all targets), and then proceed to rotate through mobs, giving them each a full threat combo one at a time until they're all dead. (Of course adjustments will be needed from time to time as you're forced to react to things -- including your own party's actions, not just mobs -- but such adjustments will be easy to figure out once you're practiced at monitoring threat levels.)

By the time you get to Longstop these habits will all be natural to you, you will have likely unlocked Paladin for extra defense, the difficulty of mobs will start forcing your party members to play well and obey your markers, and you'll have been awarded your first Oath ability -- it's Sword Oath, which is a stance that gives you extra damage, but don't discard it as useless. The extra damage still acts as a passive threat bonus to all of your actions, and will make a noticeable difference until you get the even better Shield Oath. You will notice a huge difference in threat as you unlock both of these, and over time you also get stronger finishing moves for threat combos, the pinnacle being Rage of Halone. By the time you've got Rage of Halone and Shield Oath, you'll be an unstoppable threat machine. You'll be tanking with your eyes closed and one hand behind your back, and you'll look back and laugh at the frustration you felt in the lower levels. You'll see.