Request to Dev's. Tune Titan HM.

[Vesuvias]

Was he looking at the in-game send/receive? I ask because those numbers are SUPPOSED to be high. Actually, an in-game of 9320 is even better than mine. I usually sit around 6k in a Titan fight, and I can stand in a WotL and finish a cast before running out. So if your friend has an incoming that high, he either has a TERRIBLE gaming rig (graphics are renderin late) or he's just plain bad with his reflexes.

P.S - if he's playing on PS3, well...... that should be an argument for why PS3 should be dropped for this game :/

I believe he is on a pc, and no that was what is ping via his programs was telling him. I am not going to try to lay blame but i thought it was interesting, thought I would share. Though sadly my experiance with online gaming and the ps3 really is up to whether or not your wired or wireless.

[Raestloz]

I was just trying to point the fact that you are missing some key points :
- Titan is designed to be a dodge fight. The key of the fight is about constantly repositionning. The only way to avoid making such a fight the "easiest fight ever" is to make it extremely punishing (aka "move or die")
- If you're having the lag you pretend to have, design is not the problem : your connection is. And you can't blame SE for this.
- If you're having the lag your pretend, Titan isn't the only fight you will have trouble, and you would have trouble in pretty much any online game (MMO, or even worst, FPS for instance). For example, if you're bard and can't dodge titan cause of lag, you probably can't silence in time on the first trash mob in coil, and will be the reason of wipes in your party. Or on Garuda extreme, you will probably die because of running too late in the spiny plume bubble (whatever your job is).

FF is a MMO, which includes "playing online". You can't complain to SE that the conditions are bad if your connection sux. Would you blame SE if you're computer was 10 years old and couldn't run FF properly and the game were stuttering? Would you tell em "hey SE, your design on this boss is crap, because if my computer sux and can't display the graphics without freezing my computer, I can't do the fight!!!!". I think you obviously wouldn't, but you blame SE because your ISP sux? I mean....come on.....blame your ISP. Common sense, no?
Your way of thinking is just completely flawed in several ways, and I'll tell it again :
- you really are blaming the wrong person : SE isn't responsible of your lags
- if you have problems with lag, it won't only be about Titan, it would be about any online game.
- start to think about your own skill, and I assure you that you can perform better by starting blaming yourself, even if you have connection issues. You can improve your skill to react faster, just by perfectly knowing the fight....And then, once you will master it, you will think it's just easy.

By the way, I'm not saying SE isn't faulty in any way : yeah, they had some problems, which are mostly fixed now......And yeah, having their server in canada for european players isn't the smartest idea and causes some delay....But some people complain about this and don't improve, spending time whinning on forums, instead of trying the fight to learn better the patterns.....And some other learn to deal with it (and they finally do, whatever you can say) and go to the next step.

Yes, of course. Keep using the word "pretending to have". Go on and keep actively dodging the entire point. The point is homing in at you, and you keep blocking it.

The entire point is that Titan's design is just not good. It's not a matter of "Is it viable? Can it be cleared"? I can design insanely difficult system that punishes you with instant death for moving to the wrong area at 1 pixel-precise level with mili-second level timing precision. Only the ultimate gamer spending years mastering it can win. Does it make it "good"?

-Designing a dodge fight is not a hallmark of good MMORPG. It relies entirely on latency, something no one has ever tamed. It works with FPS games because it's the entire point in those games: precision. FFXIV is not designed around precision, otherwise we'd have something like headshot mechanics, or *gasp* actually synchronized animation and damage infliction mechanism! It's merely based around the concept of dodging attacks, which is alright, but Titan abuses it to extreme levels, disallowing players to recover outright.

-Of course, keep using the word "pretend".
Surely, this girl is pretending to have lag!
Surely, not a single person has ever experienced lag! They're all lying!
How dare I claim someone who defeated Garuda with zero lag experiences lag in Titan!

Why don't I congratulate you for having a connection so good when everyone's lagging you're speeding ahead?

-Titan is indeed the only fight I have problem with. There's a certain threshold when you try to talk about game design. Games are designed to be *gasp* enjoyable! Oh no I've uttered the FORBIDDEN WORD!

When you sell your game to others, you need to make sure they enjoy your game, but not to the point of becoming their slave. To this end, people understand a concept:

Margin of Error: allow players to make slight mistakes on their part. A bit off timing, not moving far enough. Punish them severely, but don't block them outright. This is the entire basis of the concept of "Hit Points". It allows game designers to administer punishment but allows players to adjust their strategy on the fly if something doesn't work out to try to regain the upper hand.

But Titan? Titan doesn't understand the concept of HP. It's based entirely around OHKOs. It has gear check to make sure you can survive the Tumults, but that's it.

A good example of how often you should use OHKOs is Ultima Hard. It has lots of dancing, but it doesn't employ sudden deaths as often as Titan does. The only sudden death it has also will wipe the entire party, but dealing with that mechanic requires cooperation of the group, it's very rare, and everybody has ample time to prepare for that

Titan's design is winnable. There is no denying that. But so is f***ing Pandemonium Warden. Anyone ever crowned Pandemonium as "good design"?

[leprov]

About your first video : it's september. As I said, square have had problems, clearly. It has not always been "people's connection" fault. And in september, it's clearly not surprising me.
About the second video, I'd say yes, if I'm reacting as slow as he is, I'm dead too, and I see myself outside of the plumes too. But he's slow to move, and he doesn't sprint. As a caster, you can have ALWAYS sprint up for titan extreme. It's a spell you have, it's outside of your GCD, and you can have it available for every single plume. Not using it to help yourself and still thinking you're doing your best? As I said, but it seems you don't want to hear it, you can still improve yourself to react faster and dodge better, instead of making videos complaining how bad your lag is. By the way, it's a matter of way of thinking. If you prefer blaming external factors, you will just clearly stay where you are. But if you think that you can deal with it by doing better....Well, in this case, you'll beat titan

[Fynlar]

In fact, if you can dodge plumes 100% , what else is really difficult about titan?

Mass Tumults. Bombs, and bombs+landslide. Neither of which Titan SM does. (And even if you don't think they're necessarily difficult, how often have you seen other people have trouble handling them?)

Titan SM also doesn't throw out nearly as many plumes, which makes them much easier to deal with.

Again, there's really no comparison.

[bloodSp3c]

I finished this on my white mage relic with duty finder on my 3rd queue! I guess u just get lucky sometimes with decent ppl that know what to do and high enough gear.

[TheMax1087]

About the second video, I'd say yes, if I'm reacting as slow as he is, I'm dead too, and I see myself outside of the plumes too.

Posts like this really annoy me. I'm not one of the people having trouble with lag on Titan(I can normally complete it pretty easily), but a vid of someone clearly outside of plumes getting hit by plumes somehow eliciting the response of "if I was reacting as slow" is simply idiotic, especially if someone who wasn't experiencing this lag could react at the exact same time and not get hit by it. The way some of you blow off lag as a non issue you'd think there wouldn't be a topic filled with vids of people getting hit by attacks they visibly dodged.

[Ryuko]

I dodge 99% of all the things perfectly. BUT... I know lag exists. Why is it so hard for some people who usually don't lag to grasp this concept? "It doesn't happen to me so it doesn't exist!" No. I've played a lot of MMOs, and YES, some people have better connections than others... but I've never seen such a widespread issue as this. As a person who is usually never the reason for a wipe, you have my sympathy because I can only imagine how frustrating it is to be limited by something you absolutely cannot control.

The increase in updated positioning for Titan Extreme was a good step forward, but it's definitely not enough.

[leprov]

Posts like this really annoy me. I'm not one of the people having trouble with lag on Titan(I can normally complete it pretty easily), but a vid of someone clearly outside of plumes getting hit by plumes somehow eliciting the response of "if I was reacting as slow" is simply idiotic, especially if someone who wasn't experiencing this lag could react at the exact same time and not get hit by it.

Since you quoted the whole sentence, why do you only consider one part? Read again the quote (or read it here, I'll be kind enough to repeat) : If I'm reacting as slow as he is, I'm dead too, and I see myself outisde of plumes too. This doesn't change the fact that he is damn slow, and that as a WHM he can use sprint on every single plume. My point is merely this one : making videos about how you die outside of plumes won't make you better at dodging; thinking about how you can deal with it would make you able to win the fight though....
Just.....Stop thinking that it's not your fault, and you can't do nothing, and blablablabla. There is delay, yes (this is an online game...there is delay....nothing new actually, even if it can sometimes be a bit high). But if you think that it's ONLY delay fault, and you refuse to think that you can do better....then you will get stuck, and I insist, it probably won't be "delay" fault. It's your way of thinking which is the most wrong

EDIT : Just a free taunt : too bad internet didn't exist when people thought earth was like a pizza, people could link on reddit topic to try proving earth isn't a sphere (message behind this : being a lot is completely different of being right. I don't say this to deny the existence of delay, I deny the fact that delay is real barrier. Being too much focused on a way of thinking is what makes you stuck)

[Sax]

If I'm reacting as slow as he is, I'm dead too, and I see myself outisde of plumes too.

That's the whole point of the argument which you seem to be missing. Their reaction time in the second video is just fine.

The issue is, that two players with exactly the same response time, can experience completely different outcomes due to server lag. It has nothing to do with skill, ability, or reaction time - and that's a design flaw, especially since the developers are aware of the issue. Also, while pre-dodging is a way to compensate for the lag issues that occur in the titan fights (and only for WotL) it creates an imbalance in difficulty. Yea yea, it's easy anyway blah blah blah, but until you've dodged weights without the lag you don't know how easy it really is, even more so when you've spent months pre-dodging.

I think that's where this harsh attitude has come from. The mechanic is actually quite simple to avoid without lag (you can even hesitate and still move out in time), so I can see why people are easily frustrated, cry noob, and generally have lower tolerance of people that take longer to adjust to the fight due to lag issues. But titan lag is like FFXIV's climate change. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, there are just some people that will refuse to acknowledge its existence.

Also, sprint is not always available to use before hand, especially in the final phase of the extreme version of the fight. To suggest that the player is at fault for not continually having sprint up is ridiculous.

EDIT: And yes I get that you know the lag is there. However, people keep bringing this up to ensure that if mechanics similar to weight of the land are used in future fights, that they are implemented in a way that accounts for the lag and does not create an imbalance that subsequently excludes players from content they would otherwise be able to clear.

[leprov]

@Sax (too long quote for the 1000 char restriction at first) :

I still feel the reaction time in second video is slow. I don't "pre-dodge", I just dodge "faster when it appears", just because I know when it will come.
And as I said in my previous post, it is an online game that requires an internet connexion. Complaining about design of the game when you have a bad connection is just not honnest in my opinion. If you have graphics issues that are slowing your computer and make the fight harder for you because of this, would you call this a design issue? When a game requires a good computer, and you have a bad one, you probably don't complain. But when it requires a good connexion and you don't have one, you do? I don't think this is a fair attitude.

Then, my point is clearly that a lot of people are so focused on this "I die outside", that they won't improve, because they keep thinking "it's not my fault, so I can't do anything about it, so I won't do anything about it". And some other people have the same issues and feel the fight is easy.

Last but not least : As a WHM, I DO have sprint available for every single plume during titan extreme, whatever the phase is. You just have to cast sprint at the right moment (and not "just when plumes are popping"). Examples :
P1 - Cast your first sprint at the start of the first landslide, so you have sprint available on the next P1 plume if dps is low
all phases after : when people are in goals, cast sprint as soon as the landslide ends (after upheaval), so you will have sprint active for the plumes, and cooldown available for the next plumes. Timing is just a bit different for the last phase (right after tumult works well, or right before works too....but just after landslide is a bit early)
hearth phase : cast sprint as soon as earthen fury ends, so you have sprint for first plume, and CD available for the second ones.
P4 - Cast your first sprint as soon as you are in position on the bomb after the landslide (will be the same moment that mountain buster, more or less) so it's available for plume, then cd will be up for double plume.
and so on