DPS at End Game

[Hitome]

Sad, you still can't let titan go on a post not even about titan. Just stop, its childish at this point.

I don't think it's childish at all to observe your past posting history and make an observation about your posts on this forum as a result.

Your opinions are often incorrect as they were in Titan and as they are on this subject. Tanking is not a joke but it is far from difficult. DPS and healers both have it much more rough.

Play one and find out. I play all three.

I would say drg and mnk are equal at this point with some encounters better then one or another. Drg tend to be better over all for the newer content though.

They are both now far more powerful then range users by far. You can't beat a drg or mnk when there's something to hit.

Smn and blm are really hit or miss, they are in some cases even worse then a bad drg/mnk in the newer content. there's a reason for almost every class now, with exception of smn (because they still have some annoying issues), but smn can be really powerful in certain cases.

I mistook you for ZeroRains at first.

DRG is not more powerful than ranged users, sorry to burst your bubble. MNKs are pretty well up there. But SMNs destroy them on most fights. There is ALWAYS a need for a SMN due to battle res which frees up healers quite a bit and they can have almost 100% up time on any boss.

We already discussed this in another thread but BLM and SMN sit just fine right now. BLM can out DPS just about everyone on select encounters but MNK and often tie with SMNs. SMN can out DPS everyone besides MNK on select encounters.

[Peptaru]

We already discussed this in another thread but BLM and SMN sit just fine right now. BLM can out DPS just about everyone but SMN and MNK. SMN can out DPS everyone besides MNK on select encounters.

Thank you for this post, it makes me laugh. The BLM can out DPS just about everyone, except half the other DPS jobs.... ahhhh good times.

[kukurumei]

I mistook you for ZeroRains at first.

DRG is not more powerful than ranged users, sorry to burst your bubble. MNKs are pretty well up there. But SMNs destroy them on most fights. There is ALWAYS a need for a SMN due to battle res which frees up healers quite a bit and they can have almost 100% up time on any boss.

We already discussed this in another thread but BLM and SMN sit just fine right now. BLM can out DPS just about everyone but SMN and MNK. SMN can out DPS everyone besides MNK on select encounters.

That's why I hate people like you. SMN parse about 20% under drg/mnk consistantly, and even worse if they're bad, and anytime a smn is uber, the whole strategy has to be reworked around a smn, so they can be the star of the show. Drama queens like that group can do without, if it came down to clear.

SMN an be good, but it takes so much effort to make smn's good, a blms or a brd can do it just as well, with a more straightfoward strategy.

Drg and mnk on newer content rocks the range users. In 2.1 parses, drg,mnk comes in pretty close, with brd next follow by blm then smn. When a smm actually does good, the strategy is significantly different and tanks takes a lot of grumbling to work around the smn(s).

The only time where a smn had any significance uniqueness is still Turn4. All 2.1 f-smn- as they say on a general basis. They screw up the team more then they help (garuda ex uuugh). And when they are good, everyone has to do everything a little different to make up/have exceptionable parses.

Blms have their own problems, doing bad dps, but at least they won't wipe a pt like smn's. Brds are consistant, and mnk/drg as long as they know their role, are solid leaders (a wooping 30%+ parse on ultima/garuda is crazy, and forget titan)

[ispano]

-snip-

You should go back and look at those parsers and how they work. You should know as anything with a DoT, that parsers cannot read DoT damage from the logs(since it doesn't exist in the log) and are always estimating it.

[Seobit]

That's why I hate people like you. SMN parse about 20% under drg/mnk consistantly, and even worse if they're bad, and anytime a smn is uber, the whole strategy has to be reworked around a smn, so they can be the star of the show. Drama queens like that group can do without, if it came down to clear.

SMN an be good, but it takes so much effort to make smn's good, a blms or a brd can do it just as well, with a more straightfoward strategy.

Drg and mnk on newer content rocks the range users. In 2.1 parses, drg,mnk comes in pretty close, with brd next follow by blm then smn. When a smm actually does good, the strategy is significantly different and tanks takes a lot of grumbling to work around the smn(s).

The only time where a smn had any significance uniqueness is still Turn4. All 2.1 f-smn- as they say on a general basis. They screw up the team more then they help (garuda ex uuugh). And when they are good, everyone has to do everything a little different to make up/have exceptionable parses.

Blms have their own problems, doing bad dps, but at least they won't wipe a pt like smn's. Brds are consistant, and mnk/drg as long as they know their role, are solid leaders (a wooping 30%+ parse on ultima/garuda is crazy, and forget titan)

All this sounds like to me is that you never had the fortune of grouping with an actually good SMN. You'd have a very different opinion if you did.

[kukurumei]

All this sounds like to me is that you never had the fortune of grouping with an actually good SMN. You'd have a very different opinion if you did.

We have serveral good smns, good blms, and good brds, etc. You're just living on 2.0

The difference is 2.1 is not 2.0. Both content and balance.

Raw stat wise.

Smn got a thunder nerf ~7% damage nerf
Smn got a bane nerf (no more resets on dots) 2~4% nerf

Mnks got 10%+ damage buff (lost some blood for blood, but massive increase in raw output)
Mnks got fuma ~3% buff from BiS
Drg got similar 10~13%(they got way way better from the rebalance)

Bards is like 10% nerf from the blood for blood and IR nerf.

Blms got a bliz tick nerf, but got CT gear, so stayed about even (though really a sight nerf from the MP tick)

All this plus the 2.1 battle content makes melees on top, brds - decent, blms - decent, and smn...very dodgy in their damage contributions. With all the "we need to burst them down asap" mechanics it puts smn at a risky bet at times.

A good blm will out perform a good smn in standard tactics, unless the party accommodates the SMN in certain content, and a brd is just solid if not uber now.

A SMM can only really shine, when the party grumbles, and even then, a melee slot is invaluable in their contributions.

[Hitome]

Misinformation

A good SMN will always out perform a good BLM. A good SMN will come close to a good MNK. A good SMN will run circles around a good DRG.

There is nothing that a SMN brings that requires the party to drastically change mechanics. In fact, they bring battle res: something no other DPS job can bring.

How does CT gear make up for the nerf BLMs received anyways?

Most of us are i90 already and have been clearing turn 1-5 for 10 weeks or so now. Your posts suggest you don't necessarily understand what's going on in the endgame world at the moment.

This is fine: not everyone is a hardcore player. However, I would ask that you keep the spread of misinformation to a minimum, please. The fact that you think SMNs lack DPS right now is very frightening. Most SMNs bring an incredible amount of DPS to the table. Many BLM mains I knew prior to 2.1 actually went SMN for 2.1 due to where SMN sits currently.

Incorrect use of arithmetic.

Current DPS jobs:

MNK
DRG
BRD
BLM
SMN

BLMs can sometimes outperform SMNs. BLMs can rarely outperform MNKs. If BLMs have a hard time outperforming one job on a consistent basis, this is not more than half of the DPS jobs listed.

[kukurumei]

A good SMN will always out perform a good BLM. A good SMN will come close to a good MNK. A good SMN will run circles around a good DRG.

There is nothing that a SMN brings that requires the party to drastically change mechanics. In fact, they bring battle res: something no other DPS job can bring.

How does CT gear make up for the nerf BLMs received anyways?

Most of us are i90 already and have been clearing turn 1-5 for 10 weeks or so now. Your posts suggest you don't necessarily understand what's going on in the endgame world at the moment.

This is fine: not everyone is a hardcore player. However, I would ask that you keep the spread of misinformation to a minimum, please. The fact that you think SMNs lack DPS right now is very frightening. Most SMNs bring an incredible amount of DPS to the table. Many BLM mains I knew prior to 2.1 actually went SMN for 2.1 due to where SMN sits currently.

2.1 needs burst, SMN do nothing, they have to make the other party burst for them. And worse off, some of them you don't want any stay shots that smn are so prone to doing (the number of smns touching the things they're not suppose to touch is ridiculous).

all smn like to say, "we have great 1minute burst". It's not 1minute "burst", it's 10 second burst you need. They don't have it. They make others do their part of the work.

And I exclude coil gears. coil is too random, and impossible to predict the combinations of gears people wear. CT gears is generally just a weaken version of Coil gears anyway, which is why the crimson set has upped the blm damage in general. Same with mnk and drg. You might as well start putting in ex weapons and i95 weapons, and then what? ACC vs non ACC combination. That's ridiculous, what acc for what content, for what combination of food? Potions, etc? Impossible to argue.

Smn beating a blm? yes, blm beating a smn, yea. blm beating a mnk yea, mnk beating a drg, sure, drg beating a mnk, yup. It's all Content.

2.1 smn just don't have it, and with their nerf, they have it even less, and current stats, even Lessss....!!! and drg can beat mnks pretty easily on 2.1 content. They are not shrimps anymore, the content really benifits them, just like it benefits melees.

To get into specifics smn regularly screw up moogle, regularly screw up garuda big time, and by damn i hate having a smn in titan ex omg how "do not kill until lanside" annoyance. ifrit is fine since range is so nice on it.

and onto tactics, omg how annoying they are in ultima and garuda, titan ex, uugh.

Smn is just another range class, they are parsing nowhere near the much more consistent mnk/drg/brd and they're not even that great compared to a good blm. They could be 18% in one round and 10% another round. at least with DoW you know what you're getting and phase repeats are easy to iron down.

Standard tactics, smn just don't fit very well with 2.1, unless strategy has to get drastically changed (like garuda ex/titan ex)

And you obviously haven't been parsing drg in 2.1 They are mean versatile machines. Better the mnks in most of 2.1 contents, when they can optimize.

[Hitome]

2.1 needs burst, SMN do nothing, they have to make the other party burst for them. And worse off, some of them you don't want any stay shots that smn are so prone to doing (the number of smns touching the things they're not suppose to touch is ridiculous).

Really? Do tell.

You say they need burst on Titan Ex right? Bane > fester while DoTing 2nd gaol.

You say they need burst on Ifrit Ex right? They multidot ahead of the group on nails.

You say they need burst on conflag? Bane > fester.

You say they need burst on Garuda Ex? Incorrect statement: Garuda Ex doesn't require burst. OT takes spiny away from group and bane. This is what allows WHMs and BLMs to holy/flare as well: don't think you'll get away with saying this alters party mechanics by having a SMN. ^^

Hm I think we covered 2.1 (and even some 2.0).

all smn like to say, "we have great 1minute burst". It's not 1minute "burst", it's 10 second burst you need. They don't have it. They make others do their part of the work.

1 minute burst is all you need. Short conflags are up after a minute which is the only valid point you'd ever hope to make with this statement.

And I exclude coil gears. coil is too random, and impossible to predict the combinations of gears people wear. CT gears is generally just a weaken version of Coil gears anyway, which is why the crimson set has upped the blm damage in general. Same with mnk and drg. You might as well start putting in ex weapons and i95 weapons, and then what? ACC vs non ACC combination. That's ridiculous, what acc for what content, for what combination of food? Potions, etc? Impossible to argue.

Not really. I run with a static that has a SMN. I get to see how I fair against him every week. I'm guessing you don't play with a SMN often.

Crimson is also for SMN as well.

That's the point you don't understand: we are talking about BiS comparisons. SMN destroys most jobs in BiS and even prior to BiS. It's obvious that you use pure DPS gear instead of ACC gear for extreme primals.

Smn beating a blm? yes, blm beating a smn, yea. blm beating a mnk yea, mnk beating a drg, sure, drg beating a mnk, yup. It's all Content.

I'm glad you acknowledge that SMNs outperform other jobs which implies their damage is fine. DRG beating MNK? No. BLM beating MNK? No.

2.1 smn just don't have it, and with their nerf, they have it even less, and current stats, even Lessss....!!! and drg can beat mnks pretty easily on 2.1 content. They are not shrimps anymore, the content really benifits them, just like it benefits melees.

I wonder if we play the same game. ^^

To get into specifics smn regularly screw up moogle, regularly screw up garuda big time, and by damn i hate having a smn in titan ex omg how "do not kill until lanside" annoyance. ifrit is fine since range is so nice on it.

Oh we are considering story content like Moogle? No, we are considering Twintania and extremes. This thread is titled DPS at endgame. Moogle is not endgame.

You just described bad SMNs that you play with and generalized this interaction to the rest of the class. That is a horrible thing to do.

I dislike bad DRGs too. You know? The ones who break the 2nd gaol early and the healer gets landslided off because they didn't realize the ranged already had the back gaol covered.

Smn is just another range class, they are parsing nowhere near the much more consistent mnk/drg/brd and they're not even that great compared to a good blm. They could be 18% in one round and 10% another round. at least with DoW you know what you're getting and phase repeats are easy to iron down.

And you obviously haven't been parsing drg in 2.1 They are mean versatile machines. Better the mnks in most of 2.1 contents, when they can optimize.

I have done many extremes with PUG DRGs. They have some of the lowest DPS in 2.1.

Know what we use them for in my FC group? Upping our BRD's damage on turn 2. Then the DRG switches back to MNK and destroys everyone else. He has both zeniths, Allagan weapons, holy lance, and full i90 for both jobs. Wonder why he decides to play MNK instead of DRG even on Titan Ex..hmm.