PSA: Garuda EX Tanking

[Traek]

This thread is in response to this one from the General forums:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...uda-MELEE-Woes

I am making it to talk correct tanking methods for melee DD in the party. Please come discuss working methods you have seen/used so that other tanks might realize, melee in the group isn't a bad thing. I hope to spread some awareness that the players simply aren't doing Garuda EX how the devs designed it (no melee groups) to take the brainless way out.

To start it off, melee *can* dodge wicked wheel if they prep and run out, as well as the tank giving them enough room, and the Spiny Plume not needing to be switched at a bad time, etc. I don't believe this is how the fight was designed either though, and a little thought will make one realize that the OT sitting across the pond doing nothing while MT takes both Garuda/Surparna probably isn't efficient either.

One method I have used very successfully is just a small variation of the standard one. Pull Chirada like normal to the SE position, ranged/heals SW, Tank NW, melee SE on Chirada. Everyone can then burn Chirada like normal. To setup this phase I will usually SS > BB Chirada (you can savage > halone pld) and then provoke the spiny *AT THE START* of this Tornado phase. They leave you more then enough time to accomplish all this and get into position before Chirada even Slipstreams.

The point of this is, using your provoke early. You pick up the spiny plume and always have the MT take the plume off you at 2 stacks. Reason for this? Your voke will be up by the time the Spiny switch is needed. MT will pull Spiny across the Tornados like normal. Here is where people usually go wrong.. OT just sits while melee go get Wicked Wheel to the face x2. Instead, if Chirada is down (which she should be about this time), voke Surparna across. If done correctly both spiny and Surparna should simply cross paths across middle. At this point I haven't even seen Surparna do Wicked Wheel (not sure if this is a mechanic of the fight), but instead does Downburst on me like Chirada. Surparna will not jump (until enrage) and will be downed easily like Chirada was, with no melee casualties. This method is obviously just as effective with multiple melees as just one. You lose out on a few seconds of melee DD on Surparna crossing the Tornados, and that is all (ranged won't be affected).

Another method is similar as I described before, but leads to a little prolonged tank damage, good if you got geared tanks and x1 or x2 melee. You don't need to fuss much beyond normal with Spiny plume either. Simply put ranged on Surparna, and melee on Chirada in normal tanking positions. If Surparna jumps, ranged switch to Chirada till after feathers, and go back on Surparna. This works especially well with x1 melee, as their add will be second to go down, with 3 DD on Surparna and they are full time DDing Chirada without any extra damage intake.

I know there is a JP triangle method as well. I have not done this one, so I'm unsure of its implementation. Supposedly a rather safe method though. I imagine this goes with MT in NW corner, all DD/Heals SW, and OT pull Surparna NE. This will separate them out, with Chirada obviously getting burned quick off healers aggroe. Garuda/Surparna will switch places but won't matter, melee just go to Surparna's location and burn without getting hit by Wicked Wheel x2.

Anyone else have success stories, methods, or general advice to tank this properly for melee? I really see no reason for there to be melee discrimination in this fight. I hope my tank brethren are actively discouraging this attitude, and we can dispel *ranged onry* parties. Please spread the word to your fellow tanks, and keep this thread helpful and friendly.

[bokchoykn]

Yeah, we do it pretty much the same way as you suggested. From my experience, melee parses the highest damage in this fight, even when we use caster LB on the Sisters.

• For the initial Sister phase, we pull Chirada South and Garuda + Suparna North. All DPS on Chirada until she dies.
  
• OT and melee moves north and wait for the Wicked Wheel before we go in. Once Suparna starts to cast Slipstream, OT vokes it and takes it one way while MT takes Garuda the other way so they're spread apart a little.
  
• For the green circles phase, MT takes Garuda + Suparna Northwest. OT grabs Chirada and Provokes the Spiny Phase and tanks them in the Southeast.
  
• By the time the OT has two Cyclone stacks, Chirada is dead. MT provokes Spiny from the OT. OT provokes Suparna from the MT and tanks her Southwest so the melee can safely beat on her.
  
• By the time Suparna is down, Garuda has already used Wicked Wheel so the melee jump or Shoulder Tackle to the other side and put some DPS on Garuda.

It could have to do with the timing of our DPS, but there's usually no risk of melee getting Wicked Wheeled.

[Traek]

-snip-

Thanks for adding in Bokchoy, I am glad other tanks are doing similar methods. That is what I do on the first add phase as well, thanks for adding it in so there wasn't confusion.

Has anyone seen a wicked wheel from Surparna when she is apart from Garuda? Obviously if the melee jump over to MT with both Garuda/Surparna, this is the problem (x2 wicked wheel), but it seems to be part of design that Surparna doesn't do it if pulled from proximity of Garuda.

What is funny is that even if groups went full ranged, the Spiny Plume/Surparna switch of MT and OT would still be better. It ensures the Spiny's placement, takes x2 Wicked Wheel risk off MT, and doesn't interrupt DD except for tank's (el oh el).

I'm sure there are plenty of smart tanks doing these methods described, but I've seen the melee discrimination in groups and PF, so its a thing. I hope people will put forth some effort into discouraging that attitude.

[Roffel]

I'm from the same server as both of y'all and heard of y'all's clears. I have tried and tried again and it keeps getting to me. As OT we get wiped bc the MT isn't voking when needed or a dd is killing plumes early. As MT I get wiped by 2x wicked wheel. Do y'all pop all of your CDs at this point? Or is just rampart or sentinel sufficient? Should the whm be hitting me with Ss before this happens? Any help would be amazing. Thanks

[Traek]

Does anyone have anyone have experience pulling Supra first? For heavy melee parties I would like to have a plan ready for them.

As MT tanking Supra and Garuda I haven't had any problems eating a double WW with only Vengeance and Foresight up.

That's my million dollar question. I'm still trying to down this one, most of my attempts have been as War OT or Drg through PF mostly and a few DF, and the MT always falls. Once I started looking at strats it seems that most of those falls were due to MT eating 2 WW (I assume). Maybe it was healers slacking, or just the MT didn't know wth he was doing. But that's why I've been trying to see if OT should really pull Suprana first, so the MT doesn't get hit with 2 WW. But then you have melees needing to dodge WW, and it introduces more complications in a party of seemingly unprepared people lol

I know I've pulled Suprana first, the problem with that method is the Garuda jump. They switch places, so unless your DD is real good and kills the add before the first jump, the OT gets Garuda and the MT gets both adds (which'll take 0 damage till separated). I think this was the issue when my FC tried it this way, as we didn't have the fight down pat at the time.

I am pretty sure Garuda still does x2 Wicked Wheel with Chirada though. My memory might fail me here.. but I thought that was the case.

I'm from the same server as both of y'all and heard of y'all's clears. I have tried and tried again and it keeps getting to me. As OT we get wiped bc the MT isn't voking when needed or a dd is killing plumes early. As MT I get wiped by 2x wicked wheel. Do y'all pop all of your CDs at this point? Or is just rampart or sentinel sufficient? Should the whm be hitting me with Ss before this happens? Any help would be amazing. Thanks

Don't stack your major buffs. This thread has good information on buff timing:
Garuda Extreme as WAR MT.
It is for Warrior, but you get the idea. She is a little tricky with timing and it is something you'll have to practice. It does help with a healer throwing out stoneskin before, I wouldn't expect it however.

[TaranNos]

I figured this would be the strategy when I first started doing Garuda EX, but most pugs seemed to have trouble with the concept. The popular tactic here is to have melee stay on chirada while ranged kills suparna first, then helps with chirada. This minimizes time melee sits around doing nothing while not having too much riding on tanks dealing with spiny early on.

[edit]this method works best with 1 melee 3 ranged ratio, which still heavily favors ranged. Better than nothing I guess.

[whiskeybravo]

Thanks for starting this thread Traek.

As mentioned in the other thread, I haven't seen Suprana use WW after separating from Garuda, either, but not sure if it was due to distance or just Chirada being dead. More confirmations would be nice.

Does using this method still have the MT taking 2 WWs before Chirada is dead? Or should DPS have Chirada down before the double WW?

[JayRising]

Does anyone have anyone have experience pulling Supra first? For heavy melee parties I would like to have a plan ready for them.

As MT tanking Supra and Garuda I haven't had any problems eating a double WW with only Vengeance and Foresight up.

[whiskeybravo]

Does anyone have anyone have experience pulling Supra first? For heavy melee parties I would like to have a plan ready for them.

As MT tanking Supra and Garuda I haven't had any problems eating a double WW with only Vengeance and Foresight up.

That's my million dollar question. I'm still trying to down this one, most of my attempts have been as War OT or Drg through PF mostly and a few DF, and the MT always falls. Once I started looking at strats it seems that most of those falls were due to MT eating 2 WW (I assume). Maybe it was healers slacking, or just the MT didn't know wth he was doing. But that's why I've been trying to see if OT should really pull Suprana first, so the MT doesn't get hit with 2 WW. But then you have melees needing to dodge WW, and it introduces more complications in a party of seemingly unprepared people lol

Just a thought on my own comment "I haven't seen Suprana use WW after separating from Garuda, either, but not sure if it was due to distance or just Chirada being dead." If it had to due with distance only then Suprana shouldn't use WW if pulled first and separated from Garuda, so it's either Chirada being dead or a combination of both distance and a dead Chirada.

IF Suprana stops doing WW after Chirada dies then maybe it is better to pull Chirada first (no WW), then pull Suprana off MT (no WW).. And just hope the MT can survive a double WW until that happens

[Codek]

That's my million dollar question. I'm still trying to down this one, most of my attempts have been as War OT or Drg through PF mostly and a few DF, and the MT always falls. Once I started looking at strats it seems that most of those falls were due to MT eating 2 WW (I assume). Maybe it was healers slacking, or just the MT didn't know wth he was doing. But that's why I've been trying to see if OT should really pull Suprana first, so the MT doesn't get hit with 2 WW. But then you have melees needing to dodge WW, and it introduces more complications in a party of seemingly unprepared people lol

I have no first hand experience to this but I've read somewhere that having Chirada next to Garuda during this fight causes the small healing buff that can be seen in the HM version when Chirada isn't killed. It's really the only thing that might need to be considered with changing the kill order.