Healer Guide/Class Comparison

[Raestloz]

Or you could send eos to spam on the dps and have 2 extra global cooldowns to top off the tank, which is more important...

I do not see how you can have 2 global cooldowns. I do not imply that Regen is the go-to spell, there is something called priority. If you put Regen while the tank badly needs immediate heal, you're a bad healer. What I did say, is that you can have multiple targets supplemented by Regen, while with Eos you can only choose one, out of 8.

[Splorch]

"say you need to heal both the DPS and the tank, you can put Regen on both and your heals will be supplemented on both"

I'm taking your example:
To put regen on both will require to you spend 2 GCD's and ~400 mana. If both the tank and the DPS are in dire need of life saving, regen isn't the tool to begin with and I don't think that is what you mean. If the dps needs say a Cure I size heal and the tank needs a cure I sized heal you can just use cure I on tank, embrace on dps and solve both problems at once for 1/3 the price. If they both need a cure II sized heal, I wouldn't use regen, supplement or no. The MT is getting Cure II, the dps is getting Embrace + a cure I if he absolutely needs it for the phase, and then its carry on. If more than 3 people need healing they're getting either medica I/II or cure III depending on the situation. The only time I can even think of pre-regen on a dps is P6 rook, at which point he better be using feather foot and keen flurry because I'm dealing with double dreadnaughts and he's shit out of luck after that.

While you can supplement healing on 2 separate people at the same time with regen embrace is nearly(not quite) x2 as strong(its around 1.8x) and if someone doesn't need the regen at that time you can't move it to another player that needs it to save mana. You have to decide does this other person need a cure I, II, or should I aoe and take the mana hit. Embrace's power comes from the fact that once you cast it on someone, its not attached to someone who might not need it fully, costs nothing, and it doesn't effect your normal rotation. Regardless this is a pointless argument. WHM should never get a fairy/pet/"embrace bot" as I put it because the last thing this game needs is for the classes to become one and the same. This started simply because I compared the 2 because they are both supplemental heals on 3 second recasts. Embrace is ~1.8x as effective per 3 second cast where as regen can be placed on 2 people at the same time. If you're using more than 2 regens at a time you should have just used something like medica II as you're using more mana than what that would have cost you.

[Marcusow86]

If you're using more than 2 regens at a time you should have just used something like medica II as you're using more mana than what that would have cost you.

This is what defines a GOOD whm and an average ones. You whine about getting too much aggro and then you give this statement.

Have you played a SCH in end game yet? I suggest you play one before stating a fact, cause what i see here is SCH better, SCH better, WHM might be better but if you see it this way SCH is better BS.

SCH and pet can heal a diff target, rouse + illum WD, lustrate, adlo, stoneskin + sacred soil. EVERYONE talks as tho those skills magically pop out of their skill bar onto the field instantly. Do you know how much button a SCH need to press to get all these out? Sometimes, you just only have enough time to do a few and that is not enough to cover every healing aspect in the game. Therefore, before theory crafting everything, go play them out in end game and tell me just how fast your SCH can take care of MT healing and also AOE heal.

[Eriane]

SCH and pet can heal a diff target, rouse + illum WD, lustrate, adlo, stoneskin + sacred soil. EVERYONE talks as tho those skills magically pop out of their skill bar onto the field instantly. Do you know how much button a SCH need to press to get all these out? Sometimes, you just only have enough time to do a few and that is not enough to cover every healing aspect in the game. Therefore, before theory crafting everything, go play them out in end game and tell me just how fast your SCH can take care of MT healing and also AOE heal.

Lol first of all, are you implying that Sch is hard to play? How is pressing one or two buttons or a macro while waiting for gcd's hard?

Either way, i have no idea what you are saying. Are you actually saying it is a bad thing that you have the options to do multiple things vs. doing EVERYTHING one gcd at a time?

[Splorch]

To give you an understanding of how I see the WHM I think of it as a great class to learn things with. Through pure solid healing it can recover from errors, unprepared major hits, and goofs much better than the scholar though spam healing, I've recover battles that should have been lost. The cost is usually over 2000 mana, however, and as we both know that's not something that can be recovered easily by the WHM. Most of my issues stem from seeing the future of the class as part of static groups doing higher end content. Once you have the strategy down, everyone is dodging, tanks are on their cooldown rotation, guilds will begin to min/max their groups for efficiency, and SCHs bring more utility, can take care of a single target much better, and are still sufficient for almost all AoE healing requirements.

First point I agree with, no PuG group or casual guild will go find a WHM for a buff and shouldn't. Almost all fights in this game don't require min/max. I've been pugging for the last couple weeks due to the FC falling apart and I still get turns 1-4 down and have now started titan EX. Have I been in guilds in past MMO's that would do that? Yeah, sadly I have. They would stick someone like the WHM right outside the instance.

SCH virus can tone down certain magic damages, but I also mentioned that 99% of all damage taken is physical(see fey covenant). It's more useful, but I wouldn't give it too much more credit beyond that. I use virus all the same as WHM. Yes, E4E is on a shorter cooldown for SCH, which makes more uptime, still better in terms of usage, but doesn't stop me from using it.

Regen can be casted and forgotten. It has the benefit of not requiring a split mind or being distracted. When my healing is genuinely required, though, if regen wears off from say the offtank I can't always waste the cooldown to assist the other healer if we're doing split healing. Eos can be used either through ingame macros, or out of game keyboard macros to just sit on someone and spam away, effectively acting as a regen, only slightly stronger. When the target is healed and fine though, you can easily move Eos to another target, you don't just see half the spell tick away doing nothing. You don't have to burn another GCD or mana, you just switch her to another target and continue with what you're doing.

WD in direct comparison to Medica II is better. I also said that Cure III is the single strongest group heal, and SCH's have nothing to compare. With how high the cost/cast time of Medica II is its sad that it can be outdone by a pet. Medica II can be used more often, but how many WHM honestly want the aggro from it, or to spend 900 mana a minute, on top of still having to use Medica I or Cure III. With how small the HoT is it's no longer a reliable form of recovery. WD coupled with a succor, which is still cheaper effectively has its own synergy of a small bump plus shield to buy WD time to tick(it only needs 2 ticks to out heal medica I, which is what I use for 90% of all aoes that land as a WHM. By the third tick it has already surpassed Medica II with its initial bump. With SCH/SCH you can still use WD every time it's required, though without communication/familiarity with eachother, SCH's will stack it, and not have it available when they require it, which is when they spam succor and wish they were WHM's. When using cure III in most cases I cast it on myself, which mean I have to move myself to accommodate for everyone's positioning.

If people don't know that you can only have 1 fairy out at a time then I will adjust my post above. As I've stated I will make adjustments as they're needed. My last turn 4 group did use selene for the first 4 phases and then had a mid battle switch to eos. In the end the fairy combo still maintained over 300 hps with Selene at 70(mind you she wasn't healing the whole second half) and Eos at 240ish. since they each got half the battle that means that selene was near 140 hps while out, and Eos was pulling nearly 480 during the second half.

[Sebazy]

Once you have the strategy down, everyone is dodging, tanks are on their cooldown rotation, guilds will begin to min/max their groups for efficiency, and SCHs bring more utility, can take care of a single target much better, and are still sufficient for almost all AoE healing requirements.

You're not the only one that's said this, yet the FC I'm in (that has multiple server firsts and was inside the top 10 for world first T5 clear) has never once asked me to play as part of a SCH double team, we either run a single healer or we run WHM/SCH. Theorycraft all you want, the two jobs have near perfect synergy with each other and cover each other's weaknesses perfectly.

[Abigs]

healing guide?

Seems like a WHM QQ post to me..

writing off cure 2 and 3 procs? writing off stoneskin utility? lol (used to predict damage before big hits)
writing off cure 3 outside statics? have you tried any EX primals?

severely downplaying medica II by comparing it with a roused combo..

basically its downplaying every WHM strength by using situational arguments (such as ilvl of gear. or situational combos that wont be available all the time) just to make scholars look a hell better

while i do agree that scholars are slightly better than WHM when played to extreme levels (microing the pet and ensuring both GCDs are used to optimal levels), they simply cannot compare with the overall AOE throughput of WHMs whatsoever


what i do see in this post is that your playstyle fits how a SCH plays (since you write off RNGs).. maybe you should just reroll =)

[Splorch]

If I continue to play, which I am undecided on, I probably will finish SCH and begin gearing the class as well.

Cure II/III procs - Things that are unreliable yet integral to playing a class makes for choppy game play. Some battles I sit at near full mana, and that is luck. There are many times that without a bard, I'm shit out of luck. Something completely based on chance shouldn't be the difference if you make it through a full 10 minute battle. I shouldn't have to have a bard attached to me to counter an unreliable mechanic.

People who actually succeed at primal fights are 9/10 static groups. It took around 30 different pug groups to finally kill garuda ex for me, but we spent 1.5 hours together. In the end we were working just like a static group would. Having now done titan a few times within an 1-2 hours a group can get on the same page and lo and behold we're working the final phases. In both cases once the groups have gotten comfortable cure III becomes a major tool. Prior to that Medica I is the blanket.

When you want to use WD, you're going to rouse it. There's no reason not to. Its like Medica II, any time I actually decide to use it(not often), I'm going to divine seal it to benefit as much from it as possible. They go hand in hand. I've stated how I feel about the class. Its amazing for group recoveries. How many fights genuinely require that? Titan EX? Yeah, its good to know the class is actually useful for 1 battle.

SS isn't utility. Its a mitigation heal. Quoted from the original post "After that the WHM has to rely on granite skin to mitigate huge incoming damage abilities, whereas most SCH forget they have SS and just use Aldo." Deny that sentence. The spell isn't mana efficient nor is it cast time efficient, but I didn't say you don't use it. And yes, SCH's will use the time to cast Aldo over SS any day.

My biggest issue is constantly seeing SCH threads asking for more AoE healing, or better shield stacking. I've read everything from cutting WD down to 30 second recast to allowing succor/aldo to gain double strength while under galvanize. These threads pop up on almost a daily basis, and yet they're asking for the very last niche that WHM fills. Am I bit jaded about it yes, and I was already intending to go back through and tone it down in the original post above, but that will be some other time.

[Splorch]

Yes... feed me your anger...

[DreamWeaver]

Both SCH and WHM are viable for every single content in the game.
With that being said, WHM viability depends on the group itself a lot more compared to SCH, solely due to MP issue.
If people keep getting hit left and right, dying up and down, the strain on a WHM's MP is heavier compared to a SCH.
Thus with a SCH in the team, you are allowed to F up more, but with a WHM, you are allowed less .
I can see this being the main reason people prefer SCH to WHM for 4 man content.
For 8 man, having 2 SCH means MP issue is most likely non-existent, and I am thankful this thread has not caught up yet, so my WHM is still viable .