Stop "fixing" the MW scrap it

[Viridiana]

I guess there is no compromising with some of you. I've listed several different ideas for compromising with the MW. People are just going to continue to hate it to hate it until they get something they're familiar with.

. . .


The wards do not take that long to navigate, but it could be faster. I understand zoning can be annoying to some players, and heaven forbid the retainer isn't in the ward the item your looking for should be, but it's only a few minutes at most to find your star. I always have quick transactions in the wards and feel like I'm in and out when I really need something (unless it's not being sold.) This doesn't mean things can't be sped up even with the market wards. I'll touch on this more later.


There are not enough retainer spaces in wards. Mainly because players force themselves to only use the market in Ul'dah. That there are marketplaces in each starting city is completely wasted and they should just combine them all. People will disagree that there just shouldn't be physical retainers at all then, but it's just like a limit of listings too. If there is a limit on how many people can be selling a certain item on a listing, then it's the same as only so many retainers in a ward, but that being said devs had already mentioned they plan to extend capacity. Also, since they allowed retainers to wear the gear you're selling, it's also good advertising for a player's goods. Not to mention the retainers do have levels on them. Perhaps, in the future, they plan to implement a system where you upgrade your retainers which sounds like a lot of fun.

. . .

However, destroying the physical manifestation of an area with your retainer I think would be bad because of no longer being able to advertise your products, no longer being interactive with the retainer, and overall no longer being interactive with the wards (save for a menu.) I think it is an elaborate idea that can still work and be wonderful for it. They can make this a lot better and fun for players, and I hope they will.

No instant gratification for impatient or time-strapped players. I never feel that the wards are such a drain of time that I'm not enjoying the game, but I guess some people do and will sometimes believe their time is much more important than other people's. That being said, it would be nice if they had a Ward's Master that allowed you to search and buy straight from the search menu. I suggested this earlier that you could pay him a small fee to go into the 'cruel labyrinth of retainers' a player does not wish to navigate, and bring about the item you were seeking. This would benefit those who want their item asap, as well as benefit those who still wish to browse. I make this suggestion knowing, I too, would use the Ward's Master for instant purchases if I was too busy to go to a retainer, tax included. I think it's a fair trade-off. You do the legwork or you pay the small fee, either way you pay with something.

. . .

Suggest ideas. Complain, but offer solutions that are actually negotiable. Don't take out your frustrations on players that are opposed to your ideas. Personal attacks just make you look like a bad person in general, and no one will take you seriously. It's best for one to remain quiet and appear dumb, then to open their mouth and prove it.

Our helpful suggestions could be taken seriously, why wouldn't you want to help?

1) I'd be interested in compromising, if I thought compromising would actually work. As I've said before, I actually do like the *idea* of the wards, but I can't see it working long-term.

2) Not really a major concern, for most of us (I think). Sure, it's annoying, but not in a way that makes it unusable.

3) This is really the crux of it, at least for me. Yes, there are other market areas in the other cities. I don't want to spend 6 anima per item I need to search for, though. If they kept the names the same (Ward/Row/Den) and just allowed you to reach any of the three from one city, it would help. Do I believe that would permanently solve the problem? Doubtful. There's still the eventual population growth to take into account. There's the even more immediate concern of whether the upcoming expansion of the limits will re-introduce stability issues. I'd be happy with this as the end solution, if I thought it would work. . .

4) They could always introduce a differnt way of allowing modeling, such as WoW's system. Besides, it doesn't really help me to see armor on the Roegadyn as I stand there on my Hyur. As for your last sentence, I agree. We just have different ideas as to what "better" is.

5) As I touched on before, it's less a concern of time for many of us.

6/7) We both have the same goal in mind (a fun, stable, efficient way to conduct business). The problem is that both sides disagree with the other side's means of accomplishing it. I don't think either side is ever going to budge, either. Y'all've already made it clear that you don't find our ideas fun, and we've reiterated time and again that we don't think the system will ever be stable or efficient continuing along the road it's on. And I also believe that both sides are guilty of personal attacks. We are all trying to help, but let's face it. Only one side will be heard by SE, and we both want it to be ours, because neither side wants to play a game where the other side has won this arguement. (Well, I'm sure we'd still play, we just wouldn't be happy with it, eh?)

[Wolfie]

There is no compromising when a design is fundamentally flawed. No amount of compromising and patching will fix MW's scalability, usability, and stability at the same time if they insist on rendering retainers.

I repeat again: rendering retainers is what's causing every problem that the MW has. It's a bad aspect of the Market Wards as a whole and cannot be fixed; it needs to be scrapped.

[Seif]

There is no compromising when a design is fundamentally flawed. No amount of compromising and patching will fix MW's scalability, usability, and stability at the same time if they insist on rendering retainers.

I repeat again: rendering retainers is what's causing every problem that the MW has. It's a bad aspect of the Market Wards as a whole and cannot be fixed; it needs to be scrapped.

This sums up the core of the problem nicely. Anybody who has any fond feelings toward the zombie 3d models in these rooms is just plain creepy.

Even the NPCs without names are more likable because they're at very least real characters.

[Demacia]

I think we're just going to continue repeating ourselves to an audience that won't listen.

[Wolfie]

Maybe I haven't been detailed enough. I'm about to go make a Power Point presentation and do some math on this s***, because apparently nobody understands my vocabulary or what are the concepts of scalability, usability, stability, fundamental design, and rendering.

[Airlea]

Soooooo, this whole "one or the other," mentality is bothering me.

How about we get the best of both worlds. Introduce an AH, the primary hub for sales/purchases and keep the MW for additional storage, additional slots to sell items, reduced taxes for more premium/rare items. Basically, turn the MW into our Rolanberry fields (or whichever your XI server preffered pre-tax nuke) bazaars with a search function. That was, after all, part of the inspiration for the MWs.

[Wolfie]

Soooooo, this whole "one or the other," mentality is bothering me.

How about we get the best of both worlds. Introduce an AH, the primary hub for sales/purchases and keep the MW for additional storage, additional slots to sell items, reduced taxes for more premium/rare items. Basically, turn the MW into our Rolanberry fields (or whichever your XI server preffered pre-tax nuke) bazaars with a search function. That was, after all, part of the inspiration for the MWs.

I'm ok with this.

[Eldaena]

I'm ok with this.

You're okay with their post, but my lengthy one saying basically the same thing with other ideas mixed in isn't good enough? =P

[Wolfie]

You're okay with their post, but my lengthy one saying basically the same thing with other ideas mixed in isn't good enough? =P

No, because if the primary (and only) trade system is still based on rendered retainers, it's going to suck. Adding purchasing from a menu is not going to solve MW's issues of scalability and stability, but it does improve usability by a lot.

[Eldaena]

No, because if the primary (and only) trade system is still based on rendered retainers, it's going to suck. Adding purchasing from a menu is not going to solve MW's issues of scalability and stability, but it does improve usability by a lot.

I blatantly said having an AH feature on top of the MW one could work and be good for players wanting that. That is what Airlea practically said as well. They didn't say get rid of the physical rendering in the wards at all.

Also, can you tell me what is unstable with the system in it's state now? And, what sort of scalability are you looking for?