Stop "fixing" the MW scrap it

[Sephr]

It's just going round in circles now, having a search menu would make the wards redundant for 99% of people, but the lingering few love it and so we go on...

Bai

[Kailok]

My problem with the MW is not that I have to walk around to them, it's the fact that it's extremely unorganized. When you're buying battlecraft weapons in the Mender's ward, that's a problem. There's no way in hell anyone could call this system "genius", because it isn't. I've never heard anyone say "oh wow, know what's REALLY cool about the MW?"

I've heard people say "I hate it!"
and I've heard people say: "I don't have much of a problem with it"

but never heard anyone say "I love the MW, let me tell you why they're so cool." (And now I fully expect to hear it)

I understand people, like Eldaena, like to browse, and that's perfectly fine. It's awesome that you like to take the time to do that, but that's what letting people setup bazaars is for. They need to have the bazaar system, and then a fixed MW so that you can browse at a counter, or a single retainer, or series of retainers anyway, to quickly find the items you need in an organized space.

I don't mind walking, even though it is a pain. If they let you choose which item you wanted to buy from which NPC, and then only put a star over that specific retainer instead of all of the retainers, then it would work better, but they don't and I have to check every single red star to find the one I wanted.

Also, I don't see how it's Immersive that the Item Search Counter isn't an actual counter, it's just the outside of a zone. I don't see the immersion in looking into the air in front of me to find what I'm looking for. I even LIKE the IDEA of the MW's, I just think it needs to be made more convenient. And btw, for those saying that it takes just as long in XIV as it does in XI, then you most likely don't know how to bid correctly.

I just want something that works. AH or MW, I don't care. As long as it works, is efficient, organized, and convenient, then I'll be happy.

[Eldaena]

My problem with the MW is not that I have to walk around to them, it's the fact that it's extremely unorganized. When you're buying battlecraft weapons in the Mender's ward, that's a problem. There's no way in hell anyone could call this system "genius", because it isn't. I've never heard anyone say "oh wow, know what's REALLY cool about the MW?"

I've heard people say "I hate it!"
and I've heard people say: "I don't have much of a problem with it"

but never heard anyone say "I love the MW, let me tell you why they're so cool." (And now I fully expect to hear it)

I understand people, like Eldaena, like to browse, and that's perfectly fine. It's awesome that you like to take the time to do that, but that's what letting people setup bazaars is for. They need to have the bazaar system, and then a fixed MW so that you can browse at a counter, or a single retainer, or series of retainers anyway, to quickly find the items you need in an organized space.

I don't mind walking, even though it is a pain. If they let you choose which item you wanted to buy from which NPC, and then only put a star over that specific retainer instead of all of the retainers, then it would work better, but they don't and I have to check every single red star to find the one I wanted.

Also, I don't see how it's Immersive that the Item Search Counter isn't an actual counter, it's just the outside of a zone. I don't see the immersion in looking into the air in front of me to find what I'm looking for. I even LIKE the IDEA of the MW's, I just think it needs to be made more convenient. And btw, for those saying that it takes just as long in XIV as it does in XI, then you most likely don't know how to bid correctly.

I just want something that works. AH or MW, I don't care. As long as it works, is efficient, organized, and convenient, then I'll be happy.

See, I agree with you. It would be nice if you can choose which retainer to place a star over. It would also be nice to have more organization, but I'm not sure how they'll do that yet. I think the need to bring in more wards like Battlecraft 1, Battlecraft 2, etc.

Also, retainers are an extended bazaar system, that's why it's market wards and why we have the physical zones to go into. I would like it if they would implement a counter, like some kind of salesclerk that looks over the wards, and can go in and get you whatever item you want to buy, for a small fee for his services. That's what I was thinking.

Edit: I wouldn't even mind people doing bidding and such as an active element to the market in general. I think it would be more interactive and even fun, but still have stagnant marketwards for 'buy now' kind of features. You know?

[Kailok]

See, I agree with you. It would be nice if you can choose which retainer to place a star over. It would also be nice to have more organization, but I'm not sure how they'll do that yet. I think the need to bring in more wards like Battlecraft 1, Battlecraft 2, etc.

Also, retainers are an extended bazaar system, that's why it's market wards and why we have the physical zones to go into. I would like it if they would implement a counter, like some kind of salesclerk that looks over the wards, and can go in and get you whatever item you want to buy, for a small fee for his services. That's what I was thinking.

Edit: I wouldn't even mind people doing bidding and such as an active element to the market in general. I think it would be more interactive and even fun, but still have stagnant marketwards for 'buy now' kind of features. You know?

I agree, I even like the idea of bidding simply because it helps keep from people undercutting all the time. It doesn't stop undercutting indefinitely, but it certainly helps. If you don't know exactly how much the last person put, you're forced to think about it a little bit. Be smart with your money.

I also like the idea you had about using a main NPC to collect all of the knowledge of the wards and buy directly from him/her for a small tax. Would be a great gil sink.

I don't care either way though. I trust SE to decide on something good in the long run. However, my patience in waiting on that something that works is another issue. I don't even sell anything in the MW's simply because it seems so tedious to go find out how much it costs, run all the way to a retainer bell, put something up, go back and make sure it's still the same price. It just seems too ridiculous for me. Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal if you could summon your retainer directly at the counter.

[Lerris]

My problem with the MW is not that I have to walk around to them, it's the fact that it's extremely unorganized. When you're buying battlecraft weapons in the Mender's ward, that's a problem. There's no way in hell anyone could call this system "genius", because it isn't. I've never heard anyone say "oh wow, know what's REALLY cool about the MW?"

And this is where the real failure comes in.
The organization of the wards does not correspond to the range of activities a real player engages in. All weapons and armor should be sold in the battlecraft ward, but we have other things we want to sell, with their own wards. Since we have fewer retainers than categories of goods to sell, the attempt to add an organizational system to the wards fails. Miserably.

A Market Counter ( I'm not going to call it an AH, because I want to buy gear, not bid on it) would solve a lot of these issues.

[Chezen]

My problem with the MW is not that I have to walk around to them, it's the fact that it's extremely unorganized. When you're buying battlecraft weapons in the Mender's ward, that's a problem. There's no way in hell anyone could call this system "genius", because it isn't. I've never heard anyone say "oh wow, know what's REALLY cool about the MW?"

I've heard people say "I hate it!"
and I've heard people say: "I don't have much of a problem with it"

but never heard anyone say "I love the MW, let me tell you why they're so cool." (And now I fully expect to hear it)

I understand people, like Eldaena, like to browse, and that's perfectly fine. It's awesome that you like to take the time to do that, but that's what letting people setup bazaars is for. They need to have the bazaar system, and then a fixed MW so that you can browse at a counter, or a single retainer, or series of retainers anyway, to quickly find the items you need in an organized space.

I don't mind walking, even though it is a pain. If they let you choose which item you wanted to buy from which NPC, and then only put a star over that specific retainer instead of all of the retainers, then it would work better, but they don't and I have to check every single red star to find the one I wanted.

Also, I don't see how it's Immersive that the Item Search Counter isn't an actual counter, it's just the outside of a zone. I don't see the immersion in looking into the air in front of me to find what I'm looking for. I even LIKE the IDEA of the MW's, I just think it needs to be made more convenient. And btw, for those saying that it takes just as long in XIV as it does in XI, then you most likely don't know how to bid correctly.

I just want something that works. AH or MW, I don't care. As long as it works, is efficient, organized, and convenient, then I'll be happy.

I did state that I loved the wards and why some time ago, but my reasons didn't matter to the "convenience" crowd. It really doesn't matter anyway. When it comes down to it, you really don't have to have a "good" reason to love something, you just do.

I agree with most of your post though. The Wards are disorganized. Someone suggested something about a single npc per catagory, which isn't bad... but it still doesn't allow for actual shops. Part of the problem I think, was that SE expected people to deal in a few certain areas, not all possible crafts. Resulting in huge fleamarkets rather than specific shops.

As for (refering to Wolfie) this not being possible to fix... many innovators were told they were crazy, and it can't be done. Of course, it also depends on what you think can or can't be fixed. If you simply hate the MW altogether, then yes, it can't be fixed for you. However if you like the idea of the MW, scrapping them is not a fix for that crowd.

[Kailok]

I agree with most of your post though. The Wards are disorganized. Someone suggested something about a single npc per catagory, which isn't bad... but it still doesn't allow for actual shops. Part of the problem I think, was that SE expected people to deal in a few certain areas, not all possible crafts, Resulting in huge fleamarkets rather than specific shops.

I had an idea for this a little while back: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...lease-everyone.

It was pretty much a mix between AH and MW that could please both the people who like to browse, and those who like convenience, all while giving the "feel" of a large Bazaar-type area. Right now, browsing for gear in a dark hallway seems like a black market to me >.>

[Chezen]

I had an idea for this a little while back: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...lease-everyone.

It was pretty much a mix between AH and MW that could please both the people who like to browse, and those who like convenience, all while giving the "feel" of a large Bazaar-type area. Right now, browsing for gear in a dark hallway seems like a black market to me >.>

Lol about the black market.

My issue with your proposal is that it takes away the possibilty of people having their own stores, or any possible game ideas that might be associated with that. Plus I really love my retainers.

Another thing that will happen (and one reason I don't care for AHs), is people all crowding around one particuliar NPC, which isn't very market-like to me. It also takes away the shop experience that some of us like.

I think your solution is good, but it won't address certain things.

How to let people have their stores and keep it organized, I admit that un's a biggie.

[normalforce]

Lol about the black market.

My issue with your proposal is that it takes away the possibilty of people having their own stores, or any possible game ideas that might be associated with that. Plus I really love my retainers.

Another thing that will happen (and one reason I don't care for AHs), is people all crowding around one particuliar NPC, which isn't very market-like to me. It also takes away the shop experience that some of us like.

I think your solution is good, but it won't address certain things.

How to let people have their stores and keep it organized, I admit that un's a biggie.

Not to veer too far off topic, but I've seen you mention stores and having retainer's eventually level up to offer more options before and I rather like that idea. (It reminds me of Recettear!) Have you given much thought about how you would advance your retainer? A few of the initial ideas that I had could be easily exploited, so other than going on a few quests for your retainer, I don't know what else could be done.

[Kailok]

Lol about the black market.

My issue with your proposal is that it takes away the possibilty of people having their own stores, or any possible game ideas that might be associated with that. Plus I really love my retainers.

Another thing that will happen (and one reason I don't care for AHs), is people all crowding around one particuliar NPC, which isn't very market-like to me. It also takes away the shop experience that some of us like.

I think your solution is good, but it won't address certain things.

How to let people have their stores and keep it organized, I admit that un's a biggie.

Thanks for the feedback on it I just like the idea of it feeling like a Bazaar. Hell, it'd be cool even if Moogles ran it or something. I remember in FFIX the Moogles were the ones who were the shop owners. Right now, I also like having people have their own shop, but the problem I have is (as I stated before) the fact that it's disorganized, and that each player's retainer takes up space. What happens when 3,000 people come back? each setting up multiple retainers but it's tough to keep your items on sale because SE just decided to start booting retainers from certain wards once it hits the cap. Representing your sales with a seperate NPC that takes up space is just going to cause server problems in the long run.