Anyone Have Data on Block and Parry Percentage?

[Maelwys]

Honestly, I'd be willing to say that the Onion Shield is a viable contender for BiS because it's got the insanely high block rate: blocking more for less actually smooths out your incoming damage which makes you easier to heal. Even if you end up taking more damage over time, it'll be easier on the healers, which is what mitigation is all about anyways.

I'm fairly certain that it's going to depend on what content you're doing.

The obvious observation is that on T5 or other content where there is a chance to be rapidly "spiked" to death by one or two abilities in quick succession (EM Garuda's 2x Wicked Wheels?), I'd rather have a greater chance to Block for 20% than a lesser chance to block it for 27%... because it'd mean that on average I'd die less often, pretty much regardless of the block chance numbers. On other content where spike damage isn't as dangerous, it'll depend more on which shield mitigates more average damage over time (example: EM Titan. His Mountain Buster isn't all that tough to mitigate and all the other spike-damage mechanics are either unblockable or ridiculously overpowered to the point that a block won't save you).

However that ignores Bulwark. If we can usually rely on Blocks to trigger whenever Bulwark is up, then shields with the lower Block Rate but higher Block Strength become much more valuable... and in practice I've found this to be largely the case (though I still like to pair Bulwark with Foresight 'just in case'). So is the fight going to be one where we're able to mitigate most periods of "dangerous" spike damage via cooldowns, or will we be relying more on the Random Number Generator for Blocks? There's valid arguments to be made both ways here... and I'm pretty sure that which shield is "BIS" is going to depend on the fight.

RE the Parry Tiers comment, I'm fairly sure that Dev post was only addressing the Critical Hit Stat. It's certainly possible that the same logic applies to the Parry stat, but there are occasions (such as additional STR granting additional Parry Strength) where higher stat numbers are technically "better" but certain boundary lines need to be crossed before we see any in-battle benefit from it. If it ends up that (for example) 583 Parry doesn't give you any more benefit over 580 Parry, then the effect is the same regardless of whether it's due to unintentional rounding issues or intentional stat "tiers". Thankfully, PLD doesn't really have anything else that's useful to stack, so this argument is basically moot. The PLD "BIS" Parry builds don't trade anything for +Parry other than +Crit/Det/SS... PLD doesn't need extra Enmity generation right now, and the DPS buff from stacking those other secondary stats is going to be minimal.

[PiedPiper]

Take the tampon out of your butt, King happyman.



Or you could do this, if you're as good at this as being a douche, you have it covered.

Also not everyone displays that over your head hotshot.

WTF? I asked a simple question: Has anyone done testing to find out the frequency of block and parry. What you linked has nothing to do with that.

If you aren't interested in this information.. then don't read it?

I don't see how asking a question makes me a douche. Or how pointing out that you linked something that had nothing to do with the answer to the question. Much less something that I already mentioned in teh OP as not being what I wanted, or something others had already posted (and been told it wasn't the the desired information.)


Not that its relevant, but I have been working on a in depth analysis of mitigation over time between the two tanking classes, but there is no way to calculate the actual strength of paladin's blocking if we don't know frequency. Someone already gave sample math on this, but let me elucidate:

So, for sake of argument (and this isnt' actually what the numbers are, but lets just assume they were) lets say both classes can, over time, reduce exactly 10% of damage over time via their cool downs. Given that the two classes have the same effective hp (barring a few points of vit since war naturally has a little more, but that's pretty trivial) and paladins 5% healing recieved advantage (20% damage reduction = 25% healing recieved increase vs 20% from defiance), it would seem to suggest paladin has a slight but fairly marginal advantage over time.

What we haven't accounted for, though, is "natural" mitigation. War Parry vs PLD parry & block.

What if: War has a hidden 20% chance to parry bonus, and you only block 10% of eligible attacks. Assuming 24% reduction on parry and 27% reduction on block, warrior would naturally mitigate an extra 4.8% via their parry advantage, and paladin only 2.7% via blocking. Warrior would have a 2.1% advantage.

What if parry is the same, and blocking is 20% chance? Then paladin has a 5.4% mitigation over time advantage.

This has nothing to do with tiers. I'm not sure where that tangent comes from. As to the "tiers" on block and parry mitigation amounts, I'm inclined to believe the game only shows us whole numbers but actually reduces by a decimal amount (shows 24%, actually stops 24.5% for example) based on where your stats are in a progressive fashion (just as the community rep said).


Also, everyone is talking about Onion shield vs Holy Shield Zenith, saying Onion mitigates more over time. This may be true... but we cannot possibly know it unless we actually know the frequency of block rates. Example: Lets just assume Zenith blocks 20% of attacks, that would be 5.4% mitigation over time. To get the same mitigation over time out of the onion shield (which someone said mitigates 20% per block) you would need to have a block rate of 27% with the onion shield. Without information regarding block frequency, it is impossible to quantify the effect of blocking in general, or make a meaningful comparison between any two shields of differing block rates and strength.


This also impacts bulwark's efficacy. What if the onion shield has a block rate of 42%? If bulwark is simply additive, as the tool tip suggests, you would have a block rate of 102% making it an extremely reliable cool down (in this case equal to rampart's mitigation). What if bulwark isn't additive, but rather if you miss the block chance gives you a second block chance at 60%? still strong, but not 100%.

[MythToken]

You bring up a very valid line of questioning. As a Warrior I am interested, because like you stated we may or may not have a parry advantage.

As for the tier argument yes it has been closed, by the "assume every point increases comment". BUT this is a terrible stance for a dev to have. BY HOW MUCH, is a very important thing.

I do hope someone answers your question as to block rate and parry rates. It would be very valuable information to the community. And as far as the community goes we should all be seeking answers to how much these stats increase our %'s so that we can weigh how much each stat is actually worth.

Again "Players can assume simply that as the stats that affect this grow larger, the effect will become greater." is useful information. BUT I still want to know how much it increases. I am not going to simply settle for oh just put stats in whatever and I am good, and neither should the community.

[Traek]

Lol, sorry for the derail PiedPiper, I think you have legit questions, I was half joking in my response, and half taking a shot at the devs for their blanket statement. Didn't mean to get people all cereal on it, though I do think stats are linear, and not tiered based on the dev response.

In short:

I do hope someone answers your question as to block rate and parry rates. It would be very valuable information to the community. And as far as the community goes we should all be seeking answers to how much these stats increase our %'s so that we can weigh how much each stat is actually worth.

^

[Maelwys]

Most people, including myself, have been told that parry rating only affects the amount of parries while strength determines how much you mitigate. Personal testing, however, has shown that increasing parry while strength remains the same has resulted in me parrying for more. At the base str of a i90 pld with 30 in vit and 583 parry rating, I mitigate 24% of damage.

Also, since the game has been shown to check parry before block, (ie it checks to see if you parry, if that check fails, then checks to block), I doubt a higher block rate shield would help much. As your gear improves your parry rate gets quite high. Accordingly, your combined parry + block mitigation rate is very high.

Blocking happens BEFORE Parry.
As a PLD, Parry chance takes a noticeable backseat whenever you activate Bulwark.

As far as I am aware, the order is:
Special mechanics (i.e. "is cover in effect?" or "has the target broken line of sight?") -> Dodge -> Block -> Parry -> Defence and Resistances (including special types such as Hallowed Ground) -> Impact.

If bulwark is simply additive, as the tool tip suggests, you would have a block rate of 102% making it an extremely reliable cool down (in this case equal to rampart's mitigation). What if bulwark isn't additive, but rather if you miss the block chance gives you a second block chance at 60%? still strong, but not 100%.

Bulwark is a straight 1.6 multiplier to your Block Rate, not an additive buff.
If it was additive, it'd be a LOT more powerful, to the point where it'd nearly guarantee that you block every attack when you're using the Onion Shield.

I do hope someone answers your question as to block rate and parry rates.

The most reliable source of data for Block/Parry RATE testing that I've uncovered so far comes from a Guy on Reddit called Kestiel. The thread linked has stats on the Onion and Allagan/Holy shields, but he's also posted some other numbers in the past which largely tie in with what was previously posted by Ninjiitstu and Ruckus.

Basically, a good ballpark figure is ~25% Block chance for the Allagan/Holy shields and ~35% for the Onion.

[MythToken]

Thx for the info will check it out.

[NightReach]

I am very interested in a chart that directly correlate damage mitigation percentage from parry to parry stat. If the gains are smalls and/or exponential decay after a certain point I think its better to slot det/SS/crit gear. I personally hate stats like parry cuz it is useless for 75% percent of the time, and the only parry boosting ability is from DRG of all ppl....

[Judge_Xero]

What that's strange about the Bulwark testing. I used to think it was multiplicative too. Just grab a huge group of mobs and you'll see you block 80-100% of Blockable attacks which leans more to additive than multiplicative.

[PiedPiper]

First off, amazing reply chock full of info I was asking for. My love for you is eternal, much like my need to flash crowds to get get attention while wearing a tiara.

Blocking happens BEFORE Parry.
As a PLD, Parry chance takes a noticeable backseat whenever you activate Bulwark.

As far as I am aware, the order is:
Special mechanics (i.e. "is cover in effect?" or "has the target broken line of sight?") -> Dodge -> Block -> Parry -> Defence and Resistances (including special types such as Hallowed Ground) -> Impact.

Okay, last testing I had seen showed parry before block. Personally I have't noticed a decreasing parrying during bulwark, but I will investigate. I desperately hope it is block then parry as that makes much more sense for paladin.

Bulwark is a straight 1.6 multiplier to your Block Rate, not an additive buff.
If it was additive, it'd be a LOT more powerful, to the point where it'd nearly guarantee that you block every attack when you're using the Onion Shield.

If it is just a 1.6 multiplier, which I suppose the tool tip could suggest, it would be a very weak cool down. Like, even weaker than most people think it is. Using your provided number of 25% with holy shield, bulwark would only increase the block chance to 40% Anecdotally, I'd be amazed if it was this profoundly weak, especially since I very rarely fail to block during bulwark.

The most reliable source of data for Block/Parry RATE testing that I've uncovered so far comes from a Guy on Reddit called Kestiel. The thread linked has stats on the Onion and Allagan/Holy shields, but he's also posted some other numbers in the past which largely tie in with what was previously posted by Ninjiitstu and Ruckus.

Basically, a good ballpark figure is ~25% Block chance for the Allagan/Holy shields and ~35% for the Onion.

So excited to pour through all this. Cannot thank you enough.

[AugustusSB]

First off, amazing reply chock full of info I was asking for. My love for you is eternal, much like my need to flash crowds to get get attention while wearing a tiara.




Okay, last testing I had seen showed parry before block. Personally I have't noticed a decreasing parrying during bulwark, but I will investigate. I desperately hope it is block then parry as that makes much more sense for paladin.




If it is just a 1.6 multiplier, which I suppose the tool tip could suggest, it would be a very weak cool down. Like, even weaker than most people think it is. Using your provided number of 25% with holy shield, bulwark would only increase the block chance to 40% Anecdotally, I'd be amazed if it was this profoundly weak, especially since I very rarely fail to block during bulwark.





So excited to pour through all this. Cannot thank you enough.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3