Severe rubberbanding,Fios user and I included traceroutes

[Raist]

Raist as much as I appreciate the formatting of the thread, I think that packetloss is much more important that poor worst results. If the average was closer to worst than best I could see that as being an issue however the majority of the team the worst is far from the average.

23% packetloss is not something that is acceptable, even 8% packetloss (inside square by the looks of things) is very borderline.

Bottom line is this, if square want people to continue with their game especially those who are only doing endgame PvP / PvE they need to start the conversations with the ISP / Peering networks now rather than putting this back on the end users.

That's the problem though... this is more an issue on your ISP's side or their partners and not SE's--as clearly evidenced in your trace. If your latency stays in check you can actually manage in spite of a good bit of packet loss--especially if your entire route stays around 100 or less (under 1/8 a second). Now, if you consistently break the 300ms mark and are having 1/3 second or more lag, then you will surely feel the crunch when losses start creeping up.

A 4% loss at Ormuco's side is nearly negligible if you have decent latency--like if your latency is staying under 100 for the bulk of your route, which it clearly is not. I played for a while with 7% measured losses when my latencies were only going just over 100 at one hop---the rest of the route was staying under 80ms, even at SE's end. Things still ran pretty smooth in spite of the packet loss.

Again.. the bulk of the problems are rooted in segments managed by either your ISP or their partners. They are the ones with the responsibility and the means to remedy the situation--not SE. The ISP's need to be analyzing the traffic to see what is going on and adjust the routes/policies to rebalance the flow. The only connection to SE on this matter is they have recently become a high volume endpoint that has caught the ISP's unaware. This kind of thing happens anytime there is a major shift in the flow that results in overloading the routes. Barring it being a major chokedown at the endpoint itself, the ISP's have to take action to reign in the congestion. SE is NOT responsible for problems with your internet service because, well, they aren't the Internet Service Provider.... that falls to your ISP and their partners to address.

Not saying SE and/or Ormuco shouldn't look into the intermittent losses we've been seeing in their last 3 hops when it is within the scope of SE's service and/or network, but the bigger problems exist before you even get to them. If Ormuco and SE had a near perfect 30ms, no packet loss service at the end--you would still be suffering long delays and packet loss along your path with nearly 1/4 packets lost at level3, compounded by latency spikes up to 1/3 a second or more at various points along your way to Montreal. This can cause out of order transmission (calling for a high retransmit rate) or otherwise trigger slow-start, and your rubberbanding issue would still persist.

Since the vast majority of the instability issues reside on our ISP's and their partners segments, they are the ones that really need to be pressured into addressing the issue. SE is not their customer... so they basically can just as well ignore them if they want. We however are the ISP's paying customers, and they do need to listen to us.

[Cryptic]

i had this same issue and brought it to FIOS' attention and they told me "we have reports of our level 3 partners having issues, however we have no timeframe when this will be fixed so you see no connection issues. off the record my best advice for you is to go through a VPN service until this is resolved" yes... a tier 3 tech over at fios told me to use a vpn because he knows the extent of this issue is bad currently for any fast pace response gameplay.... way to go fios....

[Pawtucket]

i had this same issue and brought it to FIOS' attention and they told me "we have reports of our level 3 partners having issues, however we have no timeframe when this will be fixed so you see no connection issues. off the record my best advice for you is to go through a VPN service until this is resolved" yes... a tier 3 tech over at fios told me to use a vpn because he knows the extent of this issue is bad currently for any fast pace response gameplay.... way to go fios....

now to get them to pay for it... although this doesn't help the ps3 users.

[Cryptic]

now to get them to pay for it... although this doesn't help the ps3 users.

unfortunately this is true, they won't pay for a service for you to use nor will it assist ps3 users (unless you run a crossover setup on a laptop/desktop) however they did free upgrade my service to 75/50 lol


for ps3 users a quick "how to" on how to setup and run through on a laptop or pc to correct this rubberbanding issue while on a terrible ISP having some issues with this connection issue. (temp work around for the issue until the issue is fixed)

Do not connect your PS3 to the computer yet.
On the computer, go to the menu at the bottom left of the screen and choose control panel.
Choose Network and Sharing Center when the control panel window opens up.
On the left side of the screen, click on “Change Adaptor Settings.”
Right click on Local Area Connection.
Click on “Properties.”
Double click on the setting for “Internet Protocol Version 4.”
Where it says “Use the following IP Address,” click the check box next to it.
Under IP Address, fill in the following: 193.168.0.1
Under Subnet Mask, fill in the following: 255.255.255.0
Leave everything else alone and click “ok.”
In your Network & Sharing Center, right click on VPN and choose Main Sharing
Next to “Allow other networks to connect,” choose to check the check box.
At the top of the screen, you should see a menu called “Home Networking Connections.”
You will either see Local Area Connection or you will see PS3. Choose whichever one you see.
Do not change anything else on the screen and just click “ok.”
Close everything and connect your computer to the VPN.
Connect your Playstation 3 to the computer using the crossover cable.
Connect your PS3 to the Internet through the computer

[Wobbler]

Sorry Raist, I think that maybe you're misreading the report. On average my times are far better than 300ms to the servers.

Packet loss is the key here for the issue be to resolved. I actually tested this last night on a completely different connection, I was getting much higher ping times (on average around 160ms) with little to no packetloss and the game was completely playable with little to no skill lag.

Leading internet performance authorities (eg keynote) typically treat >2%/<4% packet loss as partially acceptable, >4% as unacceptable and <2% as acceptable.

End of the day is that Square holds responsibility for this issue just as much as the ISPs that provide service as we pay them a fee to play their game. Simple result will be that if people can't play their game, they will quit which means less money for them so it is in their best interest to make the general public aware of their efforts to address this issue both within their own infrastructure and with the common peering partners that are used by many ISPs.

Please do not misunderstand, my above statement regarding people quitting, this is not designed to be a threat but rather as a statement of fact. If you pay for a service and you aren't able to use the service why pay for it?

[ZohnoReecho]

Saying that SE is responsible for the world's internet is like saying that car constructors are responsible for how your streets are maintained…

[Wobbler]

Selective copying rules the internet

[TeaTimeBear]

Just got FIOS during Christmas and now I'm having this issue. I think I'm really SOL as I use a Mac and play on a PS3. If things stay like this then I may have to drop the game til I hear otherwise, as they delay really messes things up for me with heals or tanking.

[Wobbler]

TeaTimeBear, if you really want to play, you can try your luck with a VPN however most of the good ones are paid to use.

[Avette]

Another East Coast FiOS user here, having lag issues with dungeons particularly since 2.1. My traceroute is similar to those reported by others:


Tracing route to 199.91.189.29 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 2 ms <1 ms <1 ms Wireless_Broadband_Router.home [192.168.1.1]
2 14 ms 14 ms 6 ms L100.WASHDC-VFTTP-67.verizon-gni.net [96.231.193.1]
3 10 ms 15 ms 7 ms G0-5-3-5.WASHDC-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.187.16]
4 7 ms 5 ms 6 ms so-3-1-0-0.RES-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.151.232]
5 8 ms 8 ms 6 ms 0.xe-5-1-0.BR1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.37.69]
6 9 ms 19 ms 9 ms ae16.edge1.washingtondc12.level3.net [4.68.62.133]
7 38 ms 38 ms 36 ms vl-3604-ve-228.ebr2.Washington12.Level3.net [4.69.158.46]
8 36 ms 36 ms 51 ms 4.69.148.49
9 36 ms 39 ms 39 ms ae-61-61.csw1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.134.66]
10 37 ms 37 ms 40 ms ae-62-62.ebr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.148.33]
11 38 ms 35 ms 36 ms ae-5-5.car1.Montreal2.Level3.net [4.69.141.5]
12 249 ms 216 ms 206 ms ae-11-11.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net [4.69.141.1]
13 37 ms 39 ms 38 ms ORMUCO-COMM.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net [4.59.178.74]
14 39 ms 40 ms 43 ms 192.34.76.10
15 37 ms 40 ms 45 ms 199.91.189.242
16 37 ms 38 ms 40 ms 199.91.189.29

Trace complete.

One of the Level3 hops in Montreal seems to be the bad hop.