Wall of text about DF kick options, DF misuse, EU Language issues...

[evilsohn]

Thanks to the OP for a well thought-out and well-argued post. While I agree with much of what he says I disagree in one key point. The basic problem seems that the OP used the wrong tool in putting together his run. He used DF rather than PF.

In Party Finder you can set your own requirements for gear, experience, play-style, whatever. If someone joins your group who does not meet your requirements you can kick him before you start the run.

In Duty Finder you go with what you get. Permitted use of the kick function is tightly limited to 4 reasons, and only those reasons: afk, cheating, dc, harassment. Being a weak player or having gear that meets SE's minimum (but in your opinion is still insufficient) are not amoung the enumerated reasons.

One can well argue that SE set the gear minimums for certain runs too low or that the promised-but-not-here-yet abandon duty vote function is needed asap. A consensual withdrawal option is also a good idea. But a word of warning (as another poster mentioned), using the vote kick for weak armour or poor (but not harassing) play are currently reportable actions and can lead to temporary suspensions or even bans.

I don't believe SE is going to broaden the permissible uses of vote kick, out of fear that it will lead to rampant abuse. In fact, I think it should be strengthened to require a majority vote of the party members rather than the majority of voters as it currently is. That is, 3/4 for small parties and 5/8 for full parties.

Again, thanks to the OP for such a thoughtful posting.

I had to make the post the way it is, since this is a very delicate issue and I didnt want to start a shitstorm

Anyway, You are absolutely right, we should have gone with Party Finder instead of Duty Finder.

True, kicking someone for a different reason than the four that are there now is illegitemate, but one might argument, that listing for a language that one cannot speak could be considered cheating. But I guess that would be stretching it a little far

Anyways thanks to everyone so far for the sensible feedback, I was expecting a lot more hate. Thank You for proving my fears wrong.

[Jeff]

The problem is, that people, espacially frensh players, are listening with languages they don't speak. I do not have a problem with that if they know the dungeon but if not and you can't even explain it to them...

[jmdatcs]

I didn't think if you were D,E you could get an F.

This may be a stupid question, but do you realize that all languages are selected by default and by clicking them in DF you are deselecting them? Maybe you deselected D,E and left yourselves with F,J?

[evilsohn]

I didn't think if you were D,E you could get an F.

This may be a stupid question, but do you realize that all languages are selected by default and by clicking them in DF you are deselecting them? Maybe you deselected D,E and left yourselves with F,J?

There are no stupid questions
But when I enter DF only E is selected and I need to select the other languages by myself - I am 100% sure about this.

[Xayoc]

Don't abuse the vote to kick just because you don't like their gear.
I hope SE starts taking serious action against this.

Objection: Kicking for lack of skill/gear IS NOT against the TOS. It is simply the opinion of bads that get upset when they are kicked rather than carried through difficult content.

[Xakthos]

Don't abuse the vote to kick just because you don't like their gear.
I hope SE starts taking serious action against this.

They won't. Lets face a basic math reality. There was a majority of people in a given group who didn't want that person there. Be it because of gear, play, haircolor... whatever. Pure cost benefit analysis says not to act simply because at worst you have a player who needs to re-queue. No lasting harm except to maybe ego as opposed to lasting financial harm taking action against the voters.

As I said before the feature got put in; realistically no support organization is going to get involved in this type of dispute other than politely taking the complaint and quietly filing it into the circular file drawer while smiling and saying 'we'll look into it'. They'd have to be insane to do otherwise.

[Zakalwe]

Objection: Kicking for lack of skill/gear IS NOT against the TOS. It is simply the opinion of bads that get upset when they are kicked rather than carried through difficult content.

Not this again. Oh, but it is. If wishes were fishes...

[rabbitzero]

The problem is, that people, espacially frensh players, are listening with languages they don't speak. I do not have a problem with that if they know the dungeon but if not and you can't even explain it to them...

I have a thing where i can understand a lot of Japanese, but especially when under stress, have a hard time feeling confident enough to speak it, much less type it. I tend to not select J on languages though unless it's low level or story dungeons, since i could do most of them in my sleep now though.

[Calyanare]

There are no stupid questions
But when I enter DF only E is selected and I need to select the other languages by myself - I am 100% sure about this.

I think your defaults are set up in your Search Info. I'm not sure, but I think it might pull from the languages you have set in there.

[Nysneirdre]

Objection: Kicking for lack of skill/gear IS NOT against the TOS. It is simply the opinion of bads that get upset when they are kicked rather than carried through difficult content.

True. Don't let the bads use fear tactics to try to justify not removing them.

No where is it stated in their TOS, rules, etc......you cant kick someone for performance issues. Time and time again, people have asked these types to provide proof for their allegation and they come up terribly short. Most of the time they post their own personal opinions and try push that as if it were a written rule somewhere. If someone is not pulling their weight in an end game group, remove them and move on without fear of any disciplinary action being taken against your account.

To the bad players who keep getting kicked....

1. Learn your class
2. Start dodging the red reticles of death on the ground and stop eating them expecting someone to save you.
3. Start doing some research on the fights and stop winging it causing the group to wipe and wasting the other 7 players time.
4. Get some tomes and buy some gear upgrades. Stop going into these fights with the bare minimum gear and expect to be carried.
5. Do these things and start winning.