Wall of text about DF kick options, DF misuse, EU Language issues...

[Eidolon]

Just a heads up - you can bypass the post limit by editing the remainder of your post, so it's one large seemless post instead of multiple posts. ^_^ I'll read it over when you're done and respond proper. <3 :3

[evilsohn]

Just a heads up - you can bypass the post limit by editing the remainder of your post, so it's one large seemless post instead of multiple posts. ^_^ I'll read it over when you're done and respond proper. <3 :3

Thank You for the advice. Much appreciated

[nitewing]

first off SE can suspend/ban your account for abusing the vote kick. second most people us the DF to learn those fights most people that use it don't go in expecting to beat titan and lastly what did you expect to get for a healer using the DF tool.

[Eidolon]

I have ultimately felt like the Vote to kick feature has come up short in a lot of regards. Yet at the same time, I have seen it show a good light come from it, too.

First and foremost, the issue with the system is that it requires a 50% vote, and not a 50%< vote (I.E., it requires 2/4, not 3/4 or 5/8.) This is a big problem because it means that 9/10, people will kick for no reason whatsoever (Moreso just because they click yes without even really thinking of it. I've seen a number of people get kicked without a word said, not because they did anything wrong - but just because someone clicked yes.)


Yet at the same time, I'm happy when I can kick someone who's being a toxic A-hole, who's showing blatant disregard for other people's feelings or just being an overall hindrance to the group. But I agree with you - there needs to be better reasons. There really should be more options such as "Not playing to the game's mechanics' or just SOMETHING to say 'We feel we need a more skilled player in this slot."

And don't get me wrong - I've kicked people before.

I had one particularly toxic bard in Aurum Vale. He insisted I lost hate on the second boss (You know, the one with a hate reset?) and also blamed my tanking skill when he got backed into a corner and took a full 100 onze swing without even trying to dodge. He just stood there, and took it. This in and of itself wouldn't be bad, had he not proceeded to try and degrade me afterwards and started an argument in the party chat in regards to it. Ultimately, I voted to kick him, even though we downed the boss, just because he was bringing a generally vile atmosphere to the party at that point.

Perhaps when they start the 'abandon duty' option, they will add a 'Withdraw Request' option for party members who would like to be removed because they realise they are not up to par for the dungoun. An option where they can request to withdraw, and as long as 1-2 other people agree, they withdraw with no penalty (Which would be nice on a lot of regards.)

Anyways, hopefully your future runs go better~ <3 ^^

[Deminia]

Perhaps when they start the 'abandon duty' option, they will add a 'Withdraw Request' option for party members who would like to be removed because they realise they are not up to par for the dungoun. An option where they can request to withdraw, and as long as 1-2 other people agree, they withdraw with no penalty (Which would be nice on a lot of regards.)

I like this idea. I'd like to see more kick options - I do not feel that kicking a player for performing badly should be considered harassment unless they are refusing to listen or are being jerks. I do think there needs to be something to select when the rest of the party feels a "still learning" party member has been given a chance but is preventing the party from completing the duty due to inexperience.

[DMCain]

<snip>
First and foremost, the issue with the system is that it requires a 50% vote, and not a 50%< vote (I.E., it requires 2/4, not 3/4 or 5/8.)

Actually, it is a majority vote. the person being voted on has no say in the matter.
With a 4-man party you have 3 voters, it only takes 2 of those 3 to kick. Clear majority.
With an 8-man party there are 7 voters needing 4 of 7 to kick. Again, clear majority.

[Squa]

I think they should increase the DF gear req's by a bit across the board.

[Zakalwe]

Thanks to the OP for a well thought-out and well-argued post. While I agree with much of what he says I disagree in one key point. The basic problem seems that the OP used the wrong tool in putting together his run. He used DF rather than PF.

In Party Finder you can set your own requirements for gear, experience, play-style, whatever. If someone joins your group who does not meet your requirements you can kick him before you start the run.

In Duty Finder you go with what you get. Permitted use of the kick function is tightly limited to 4 reasons, and only those reasons: afk, cheating, dc, harassment. Being a weak player or having gear that meets SE's minimum (but in your opinion is still insufficient) are not amoung the enumerated reasons.

One can well argue that SE set the gear minimums for certain runs too low or that the promised-but-not-here-yet abandon duty vote function is needed asap. A consensual withdrawal option is also a good idea. But a word of warning (as another poster mentioned), using the vote kick for weak armour or poor (but not harassing) play are currently reportable actions and can lead to temporary suspensions or even bans.

I don't believe SE is going to broaden the permissible uses of vote kick, out of fear that it will lead to rampant abuse. In fact, I think it should be strengthened to require a majority vote of the party members rather than the majority of voters as it currently is. That is, 3/4 for small parties and 5/8 for full parties.

Again, thanks to the OP for such a thoughtful posting.