Thread: WAR BiS list (2.1)

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Legs are interchangeable. AF2 and Allagan have identical stats.

Allagan has crit over determination now.

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

1083 characters

I agree with you on that idea.
BIS is a bit pointless because all of the BIS pieces generally only vary by one or two points so there isn't a true and clear BIS.
I do think it stabilized somewhat though.

Am I wrong in thinking that the difference between full AF+1, Full Allagan, and everything in between is only a trivial difference? All the gear has identical strength/vitality, our primary stats. The only thing is that you should either be close or have accuracy cap. Everything else is minutia.

Can someone honestly say that one i85 tank is SIGNIFICANTLY better than another i85 tank in a completley different mixed and matchd gear set?

My philosphy has been, if it's an upgrade.. roll on it. Is there any reason for my to save 825 myth tomes for Warrior AF+1 Chest if I already have allagan chest piece, just because most if not all BiS lists have AF as a better BiS than allagan?

I think that there are a million things that could cause you to wipe in turn 4 or 5, and not having BiS is not one of them.

My personal opinion is, go for BiS if you're ONLY focusing on a single class and you ahve the time to farm it. If your'e like me, who want to have 2-3 i80+ jobs, you take the upgrade knowing full well that BiS gives you a marginal advantage where it will never make or break a given encounter.

My 2 cents.

So the BiS in the 2nd post is viable ?

Originally Posted by Zell

Can someone honestly say that one i85 tank is SIGNIFICANTLY better than another i85 tank in a completley different mixed and matchd gear set?

Itemization is fairly trivial in general. For current content, you don't even need the extra VIT afforded by ilvl90 accessories. If you're already geared in full myth and Relic Zenith with i70 accessories, you have 8200-8300 HP with food. You do not need more than that at this time.

Originally Posted by PiedPiper

I will not argue that a pld or war with max available parry will be massively superior to a similar eHP tank without similar parry, but.. its not quite so trivial. This is just like a dps min/maxing or a sch going full crit build. There is no quantifiable "welp, this +12 crit on my sch build saved the run" or "this increased chance to parry saved us" because those fail/pass moments are nearly invisible. But think of all the times you have bottomed out at quite low hp, been saved by a last moment crit cure before a big attack, parried -24% and lived with 300. All min maxing does is give you more of those narrow survival moments.

See, this is kind of the problem. If you have full i90, and your healer has full i90, no matter which pieces (assuming you meet accuracy cap one way or another) you WILL survive anything Twintania has to throw at you. That little bit of extra parry from you and that little bit of extra healing weight from your healer is null and void. Sure, yes, if you've got BiS pieces there is no point in NOT using them (acc cap, etc) but once you hit that gear level the differences between BiS and non-BiS are negligible. It's unfortunate and I wish secondary stats held more weight, hopefully they do in 2.2 and beyond, but for now... it's a little bit of extra parry on a set that already outgears the hardest content in the game by default.

And yeah, extra parry is good, especially on Warrior since we lack block rate, but it's like 2%-3% overall extra mitigation that you don't really need. Maybe it's just me, but once my WAR is decked out in full i90 and meets the acc cap for turn 5, I'm done with gearing it up more til 2.2 and moving on to my Dragoon. I'd just rather not use my time trying to get gear that will be quickly replaced in 2.2 and that little bit of extra secondary stats won't make much of a difference in the new content needed to get that gear.

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

See, this is kind of the problem. If you have full i90, and your healer has full i90, no matter which pieces (assuming you meet accuracy cap one way or another) you WILL survive anything Twintania has to throw at you. That little bit of extra parry from you and that little bit of extra healing weight from your healer is null and void.
And yeah, extra parry is good, especially on Warrior since we lack block rate, but it's like 2%-3% overall extra mitigation that you don't really need.

Except, how many progression groups have the luxury of multiple full i90 members? Sure, if your group has the fight on farm you can probably get it down to full darklight + santa caps and winning.The real use of gear is to lower difficulty for your group. Everyone does their best to contribute the most they can. As a tank, I do my best to take as little damage as I can. Besides, pld is my main, I want to grow as far vertically as I can on it (you have said you have a different priority, I don't expect you to play the same as me), now that my vit is as high as it can go, the only space left to grow is secondary stat maximization. My point was simply that yes, the primary factor in any tank (or healer or dps) efficacy is their main stats (vit/str/mnd/dex/int), and that even perfect secondary stats might not be a huge increase.

All I am saying is that while secondary stats are not essential to be effective (or even "out geared") they are not "negligible" entirely. For those people who wish to grow their main class, secondary stats are a viable and meaningful way to do so once you hit full i90. Again, as I said before, I will not argue that you "zomg must max parry or your awful." But I also won't accept "zomg parry is pointless just max vit and everything else is dumb."

I identify with your desire to level other classes (personally I'm at war i85, brd i79, whm/sch i76 and drg i76 and growing). We just come from two different play styles. Some people will always want to max as far as they can vertically on their favorite class, and the gains those people achieve will be relatively small but still present.


As a mathematical aside, 2-3% mitigation over time isn't as small as it sounds. Ex: Pld's Rampart is 20% for 20 seconds every 90 seconds, or 22.2% of the time you mitigate 20% which is 4.44% over time. Similarly Sentinel is 2.2% over time and Vengance is 3.75% over time. So those "small parry gains" are actually pretty strong over time, effectively giving you an entire extra cool down.