Look what just happened in Duty !

[Arragomis]

Also I am assuming Mikote English is not that persons first language. So you guys being grammar nazis, and making fun of him/her is really in poor taste.

[Colt47]

http://wowpedia.org/Flexible_Raid

MAKE IT HAPPEN, ENIX.

Hey look, a solution to the problem with current raiding! Hurrah!

[Amberion]

snip

Not up to my standards. The dungeons standards. I have very basic standards.

I can't really tell others how to be better at tanking, since I haven't leveled up mine. So can't give advice there, but I help as best I can with boss mechanics and such.

But when you have a tank that can't keep up enough enmity for the heals he needs. And after doing a boss 12+ times. Then came the fact that us DPS had to hold back so much that we wouldn't have been able to kill it in time. Talking about AK and the dragon here.

Pillars would have been gone even if we made it that far, but usually the dragon went for the healer. Was actually impossible to kill the dragon with that tank. Maybe if the healer was geared better, one of us DPS could tank it while killing it as I have heard happening.

And then you also talked about the golden words, "listen and learned". Yes, most people do that. But you will also have people who say, "don't tell me how to play". Or just plain stay silent.

Anyway, if you after everything still knowingly holding back 3 others from completing the dungeon, then you are rude to them.

You heard it here first, if you are new and don't know what to do yet: Drop so your party doesn't have to kick you. That way you can never learn, and you can drop again next time so they don't kick you. . .

You aren't new to your job at level 50.

[Billie21]

I once registered into DF for Garuda NM with a friend who needed to kill her.

We ended up with a full first timer team. I was the only one who had already killed her (or even fought her).

Nobody quit. We wiped countless times. The team improved, little bit by little bit. Still, we ended up using all of the 90 minutes the fight allowed, and by that time, she was down to like 5-10%.

So yeah, maybe members of this team weren't the best players in the world (I know I'm not). Maybe some better players would have figure the fight faster, some better geared players, or some more experienced players, would have killed her.

But in the end, no one quit, everybody tried their best, we all learned something (including me, because I never did the fight as another class as the one I was playinng, so I couldn't give them all tips on everything).
And we didn't have a bad time.
Easy time? Nope. But bad? Certainly not.

Those weren't griefers. They had the right to play, learn, fight something that was a new challenge to them, trying to overcome it together.


If any of those people had ended up in an otherwise more experienced team, made of 3 other well geared players who already knew how to win the fight, they might have been dragging the whole team down.
You don't get to choose who you end up with in the DF.

Did they deserved to be kicked for it? Certainly not.

Not up to my standards. The dungeons standards. I have very basic standards.

I can't really tell others how to be better at tanking, since I haven't leveled up mine. So can't give advice there, but I help as best I can with boss mechanics and such.

But when you have a tank that can't keep up enough enmity for the heals he needs. And after doing a boss 12+ times. Then came the fact that us DPS had to hold back so much that we wouldn't have been able to kill it in time. Talking about AK and the dragon here.

Pillars would have been gone even if we made it that far, but usually the dragon went for the healer. Was actually impossible to kill the dragon with that tank. Maybe if the healer was geared better, one of us DPS could tank it while killing it as I have heard happening.

And then you also talked about the golden words, "listen and learned". Yes, most people do that. But you will also have people who say, "don't tell me how to play". Or just plain stay silent.

Anyway, if you after everything still knowingly holding back 3 others from completing the dungeon, then you are rude to them.



You aren't new to your job at level 50.

As someone pointed out, you are free to leave if you don't want to play with the people you end up with in DF.
But you are not free to kick them out for this reason (however right you might be).



If there are so many people who think kicking someone out because he's not good enough is OK and should be allowed, then ask SE to add it as a reason in their list.
You are entilted to feel this way (however much I disagree with it). But it currently ISN'T one of the reasons why SE gave us the kick feature.

[ispano]

-snip-

This is the one key point that people like to ignore for various reasons. This is DF, you're going to have all kinds, new and experienced in DF. Your punishing someone by kicking them, just because they may not be as experienced as you and was unlucky enough to get random'd with you. They have the same right as you to be there. If this is something you don't like, you need to use party finder. Make your own group and you have every right to boot whomever you wish, for whatever you wish.

[yoshikwalla]

Hey look, a solution to the problem with current raiding! Hurrah!

Too bad progressive discussion is buried deep underneath a bunch of people throwing rocks at one another, trying to justify or unjustify the transparent ethics behind a system that has been nothing but a cancer to this community since it was announced. This entire thread is proof that dungeon finders kill communities.

[MikoteAstra]

Amberion

And still you dont have the right to kick him couse of those reasons! If you dont like it simply leave. Just like you he waited on the line, he pays for the game too, and if he is not cheating or afk or nonstop harassing people with bad words and etc. you simply dont have the right to vote him out of the party.

All players have the right to play the game as they fit as long as they dont cheat in it. And remember not all have good skill or are fast learners also as an example my little cousin dont speak english, so yeah he wont say a thing and he want be able to read eanything, and because of that you will kick him ? This is absured some people simply try to find reasons so that they can kick players as much as they want and play as god !

And in the case of the dn i was, they didnt bather to give him advice or eanything, they were silent from the begining and when we were close to the first boss and then bam a vote for kicking him out ! And once again the tank was good not eaven once by opening the 3 doors the soldjers were not turned into damons and i can tell you that i was with partys of players with full gear and relic + weapons witch did not managed that !

[Amberion]

Snip!

Actually, in my example. We help all the tank all the way to the last boss.

And if someone don't understand English. I would hope that once they see their name and a "?". That they would use the auto-translator to say that they don't understand English. That way, I would at least be able to try and help them. Of course, the auto translator in this game is a bit lacking. I would still do my best to try and help.

And as for your example there, yeah, they where dicks.

Anyway, if even after all the advice and tries, still fail. They are starting to knowingly disrupt the game-play of 3 others. They should leave and go to an easier dungeon until they are ready for the current one.

Heck, I think there is even a clause in the ToS about disrupting the game play of others. Of course, that could go both ways in this.

[texasminotaur]

Was doing WP, only the second time I had done that instance. I first got yelled at because I was waiting for the short area intro to play through. Two of the party apparently wanted a speed run, and I was not quite sure how to do that. Apologized, said I had only been there once and it wasn't a speed run, not sure I knew what to do for that. After four wipes, they agreed to not do a speed run. Got to the first boss, everything went good. Got to the second boss and one of their party members started kiting the adds around the room instead of giving me a chance to gain aggro on them (every time I tried, they were out of range.). After the third wipe, I asked them to bring the adds to me so I could grab aggro, and within a minute, I was kicked. Not sure if I can report the one I think was the leader or not?

[Abriael]

I think the image speaks for it self !

While the TOS may be on your side, if the tank can't hold aggro, maybe he should not do hard mode instances, or he shouldn't play a tank, especially considering that holding aggro in FFXIV is quite easy unless the DPS are intentionally going overboard.

Tanking is a matter of responsibility, with the party pivoting around you. If one can't own to that responsibility and do his best to make the experience of the whole party as smooth as possible, then he should probably look into another job.

Sorry, but that's how tanking works. It's not something you do just because it's "cool" to prance around with sword and shield and heavy armor.

Paying a monthly fee doesn't give anyone the right to make an hour of the life of three other people miserable, IMHO.