Look what just happened in Duty !

[Lumiin]

Snip

So because they don't want to read a guide where someone took their time and hard work to explain to people what to do, it becomes everyone else's responsibility? No. If they don't want to read a guide, then they don't want to read what I have to say. BAD.

Like I said if you don't know it in this basic 1-2-3 game, then it's because you simply do not want too. The duty finder isn't a place for bads to go, I don't know why everyone keeps saying "well it's the duty finder" like only bad and new players are suppose to use it. The Duty Finder is for EVERYONE just like the Party Finder is for EVERYONE. You can find bads in the party finder, so why is it okay to kick there? You can say "experience required" but if they're bad and got carried through every dungeon with someone holding their hand and that person isn't there. Guess what's going to happen? Wipe city. Especially since they think they're "experienced" lol

It'll be less bads if people stop coodling them, if you suck, you suck. You can either A. Read a guide or B. Get used to being kicked and called bad.

[Lyrinn]

Snip.

First off, you vastly underestimate how much good a bit of help does. Story time: tank in DD couldn't hold any aggro to save his life. One of the DPS asked him to switch around a couple of skills in his rotation. He did and he was able to hold aggro better. The reason he never thought of doing that was because his previous rotation had worked for him up until that point. But according to you, the tank should've read a guide and been kicked instead for not doing so.

For the sake of argument, I'm just going to leave this. You play not to teach but to have fun instead? They play not to get kicked but to have fun too. And because I can't emphasize this enough, I'm talking the average newb/noob, not your top-of-the-line bads who are absolutely hopeless, because apparently they're one and the same to some people.

[Devilray]

They should have a serious play with geared option in the DF just like in the PF. That is what DF is missing.

[Tupsi]

statement: the devs have specifically stated you are not supposed to do that

Except, how do you know if they were bad as a player or just trolling? (Harassment) That's one of the Vote Kick options. It's hard to prove if they're just trolling and trying to leech a run or just simply bad.

[Nysneirdre]

Last week I ran Titan HM for 12 hours straight on one of the days I had off that week. One of the fights I was watching a dragoon and what he was doing. He only used one skill, true trust. His most basic attack skill. Not once did he try to put up any debuffs on Titan or use his heavy thrust to increase his damage or even pull a simple combo attack. The whole fight, spammed one attack skill. He also was very good at eating aoe attacks from Titan.


If its a low level dungeon, I have no problem trying to give some pointers. By the time you are running Titan HM pulling that crap, you are getting voted out. Go right ahead and report me everytime I do it as well. I wasted 12 hours that day trying to down Titan but because of players like that dragoon, my time was wasted.

[Caraway]

Wow there are some flawed arguements on both side of the fence in this 'discussion.'

While I generally agree with the thought that you shouldn't be vote kicking someone in a Duty Finder group because they're not as skilled as you hoped, I can see there being cause to if they are purposefully being bad. That would fall under harassment.

What the HK-47 seems to be missing with their repeated pleas of "show me the line in the ToS that says kicking for performance is bad" is that there are only certain options available to you for justifying the kick. If the reason for the kick doesn't fall into those options then it's reportable. From what folks have shown there is no option for "Noob" but there is an option for being griefed. So you may get called on that if you use one of those options for an incorrect kick.

What's saddest though is on these last few pages of this where people have been outright saying that it isn't up to them to teach people how to play. That they should go and read guides before taking on an encounter. That's a load of bull, and an example of how the culture in MMOs has degraded over the years.

If someone is doing poorly you should help them. This is a game where co-operation and teamwork are what get you through the content more than anything else. You're a team going into each of these events and you should be acting like one. If someone is lacking somewhere you offering a tip if you see where the failure is will go so much further than them reading a guide. Because it has context.

And to be honest, I absolutely loathe this "read the guide first" attitude. You shouldn't have to read a guide before you're allowed into an event. There's nothing wrong with learning as you go, in the moment.

Wipes happen. Get over it and help them get better. You'll really make someone's day.

[Lyrinn]

Except, how do you know if they were bad as a player or just trolling? (Harassment) That's one of the Vote Kick options. It's hard to prove if they're just trolling and trying to leech a run or just simply bad.

Again, throw them some tips. The majority of "trolls" are so obvious that it pains me to even put quotes around that. Some of them ignore you (in which case, bad and troll are effectively the same thing). Some of them make a show of "improving" and then intentionally do something stupid at a crucial moment (tail swipe!), and then do it again on the next try. There are some masterful ones who are good at walking that thin line but nothing is perfect. Their goal is to wipe your party. Your goal is to win. It's going to clash and show at some point.

Last week I ran Titan HM for 12 hours straight on one of the days I had off that week. One of the fights I was watching a dragoon and what he was doing. He only used one skill, true trust. His most basic attack skill. Not once did he try to put up any debuffs on Titan or use his heavy thrust to increase his damage or even pull a simple combo attack. The whole fight, spammed one attack skill. He also was very good at eating aoe attacks from Titan.


If its a low level dungeon, I have no problem trying to give some pointers. By the time you are running Titan HM pulling that crap, you are getting voted out. Go right ahead and report me everytime I do it as well. I wasted 12 hours that day trying to down Titan but because of players like that dragoon, my time was wasted.

Something like this warrants a kick. Being undergeared in a DF dungeon that clearly allowed him in because of the minimum ilvl reqs doesn't.

[Lumiin]

Snip.

Or simply learned his class and applied a little bit of oh...ionno common sense? That's when learning your class comes into play, because not every rotation works on every boss but in this game it pretty much does. If they played to not get kicked they would learn their class >_> A noob is someone who is new, a new person playing the game by time they hit 50 should have learned their class. You are not a noob at end game. You're a bad. (Not you Lyrinn)

[AldricBranchais]

Why are you typing like that? Like a Sylph?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg1gTas7OAA

Or simply learned his class and applied a little bit of oh...ionno common sense? That's when learning your class comes into play, because not every rotation works on every boss but in this game it pretty much does. If they played to not get kicked they would learn their class >_> A noob is someone who is new, a new person playing the game by time they hit 50 should have learned their class. You are not a noob at end game. You're a bad. (Not you Lyrinn)

Common sense isn't so common. People don't visit class forums, or the last resort, the official reddit for tips on their jobs.

[Colt47]

This game does have issues with encounter design, though. There are multiple fights, especially at the end game level, where the design is almost completely built around murdering players repeatedly. It's like in Sonic 06 where in the first level where the player is required to press A to jump from plank to plank or fall in the water, but the narrator doesn't say anything about it until they are in the middle of doing it and the player ends up falling into the water and dieing. The Primal EX fights are basically this entire process put on repeat several times, only the fights total length is typically 10-15 minutes, each phase could be around 2-3 minutes, and it can take multiple attempts to figure out each phase. It's no wonder people depend on Strategy Guides to get through these fights, because otherwise they would have to die repeatedly to phase 1, finally figure out phase 1, die repeatedly to phase 2, figure out phase 2, etc. It's like the video game equivalent of running through a forest blind folded. Heck, even watching the guides doesn't necessarily stop this process, so is it any wonder people want to avoid having to repeat the situation with newer players? It's just unpleasant all around.

For low level dungeons this behavior spills in from the end game thanks to the Duty Roulette, since most end game players want a quick run through an easy dungeon, where as newer players are trying to learn the ropes and may not have a complete grasp of things. When the two come together it produces a volatile and poisonous environment for both and the best advice is to keep an open mind and have a bit of patience.

Off Topic: what exactly is the narrative for the story describing why we must get caught in ground hog day vs a ludicrous primal fight or Bahamuts Coil Encounter? Unless there is a good reason I'm starting to think the Ascians are justified in wanting to kill mother crystal thing: She is completely off her rocker!