More FF-esque Mob Special Characteristics

[Aegis]

Forgive the slightly confusing title, I couldn't think of an easier way to summarise this.

During Beta it was asked that mobs be given back their little quirks and idiosyncracies that were either removed in the crossover from Version 1 to Version 2 or were never included.

Examples of these Final Fantasy features are:

- Casting Fire damage on a Fire elemental would either not damage it or actively heal it (and similarly for thunder on a lightning elemental etc)
- Casting Cures on the Undead would damage them.
- Undead aggro low-hp
- Weather effects on magic damage/resistance
- Special mob behaviours (Aldgoats would follow you as you walked by, Crabs would get in a defensive posture if you got too close and would only aggro if you got closer, Squirrels would run away if you used an ability).
- Mob weaknesses to different damage types: eg flying enemies take more piercing damage, skeletons take more piercing damage, ghosts are more resistant to all physical damage.

There are, I am sure, many other examples that more obsessed FF fans than I will remember.

SE actually gave a response to this during Beta to the effect that a lot of these features will make one job more popular than another for certain content so they would not be reintroducing those. Their aim was to make all jobs equally viable for all content.

A laudable goal, but I think we can all agree that they have, to some extent not met this goal. Garuda Ex parties are increasingly common in PF requiring one or fewer melee. Double bards are held as a requirement for Turns 1 and 2 (though they aren't), if you don't have an AOE LB in Ifrit HM people leave.

My argument is that they shouldn't try to make all content beatable by all combinations of parties because that's a pipe dream they'll never realise. My argument is that they should introduce these special characteristics but try to balance out where they feature so that no classes are excluded from end-game as a whole, but that individual events give different jobs a chance to shine.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

i say NO to any form of class segregation in a MMO. Leave your elemental immunity (or elemental weakness) out of my mmorpgs

[Aegis]

i say NO to any form of class segregation in a MMO. Leave your elemental immunity out of my mmorpgs, and i say this even if i don't play blm.

Any form? Presumably you still run with at least one tank and one healer per run? Any MMO set up around the trinity is going to have some form of segregation otherwise content would be laughably easy.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

But you are still getting that approac,your example of Garuda Ex is a good one. Wouldn't it be better if one of Garuda's mobs or the Spiny Plume were susceptible to melee damage but resistant to ranged/magic? The other mob visa versa? That would mean you couldn't roll manaburn or arrowburn strat.

Also, I assume the word you were searching for was 'Pinko', meaning socialist, though I have no idea how that relates to this discussion in any way.

no, i mean pinco, in america they call it "Ordinary Joe" if you understand better.
However, garuda extreme don't promote ranged stacking to win, that's something the lazy community came up with to win brainlessy. But when the game itself promote class stacking with elemental-damage type immunity-weakness it's an entirely different problem. I like it in single player, but in MMO where i am forced to deal with other people i don't want this kind of roadblocks. I already got burned once
mind, on the other point you bring out (mob behavior, undead aggro) i can be cool, but not weakness resistance. Not anymore. Not in a mmorpg

[Sylve]

snip Wouldn't it be better if one of Garuda's mobs or the Spiny Plume were susceptible to melee damage but resistant to ranged/magic? snip.

Lol yes, lets punish the FCs who run with groups without melee because thats what they enjoy playing.

As to your elemental resistances thing, I strongly disagree that it would be good for the game. It would just severely gimp you if you happened to come across the wrong mob type. For a long time in WoW, many Elementals were immune to certain types of magic. Shaman were boned, literally 100% boned if they came across a Nature Elemental, because they could not damage it as all their damage spells were Nature based. You were reduced to auto attacking it to death.
I don't ever want to see that crap in an MMO again.

[Ri_ri]

Lol yes, lets punish the FCs who run with groups without melee because thats what they enjoy playing.

The solution then is to make everything mind numbingly boring so those FCs can do their rotation (which is another thing that bothers me, the whole conception of "rotation") over and over on monsters that are exactly like each other, but with different model?

This argument makes sense in WoW, but here you can have all jobs in one character. We were forced to change jobs in FFIII, then in FFV, then in FFT, and now suddenly it's a bad thing?

[yukikaze_yanagi]

The solution then is to make everything mind numbingly boring so those FCs can do their rotation (which is another thing that bothers me, the whole conception of "rotation") over and over on monsters that are exactly like each other, but with different model?

This argument makes sense in WoW, but here you can have all jobs in one character. We were forced to change jobs in FFIII, then in FFV, then in FFT, and now suddenly it's a bad thing?

Yes. Because this is a mmo. Because you aren't playing alone. And because people have preferences on what job they like and don't like play a class they don't just because others decided like this.

[Sylve]

The solution then is to make everything mind numbingly boring so those FCs can do their rotation (which is another thing that bothers me, the whole conception of "rotation") over and over on monsters that are exactly like each other, but with different model?

This argument makes sense in WoW, but here you can have all jobs in one character. We were forced to change jobs in FFIII, then in FFV, then in FFT, and now suddenly it's a bad thing?

How would you feel if your Raid Leader said you were not allowed to go to Coil unless you were on a Job you hated playing as? Because thats what you're asking for. Certain jobs would be junk on some fights. I should be able to play whatever i want, not whatever the current mobs happen to not be immune to.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

People are so quick to just attack and lash out. If you don't agree don't post since that helps bump it and keep it active, possibly getting a mod's attention. Or just simply say no and give your reasons in an non attacking way ._. Gesh. Not to mention this is not YOUR mmorpg.

Anyway, I never played a game with any mob features like that, sounds cool, 'specially something like casting cure on an undead mob and that damaging them lol.

Do me a favor and don't quote things out of contex.

The point is, the game will always need certain roles covered, you will never have a serious endgame event where certain party slots aren't reserved for certain jobs, the difference is one of degree. Tank and Healer are needed for most endgame content. For Turn 1/2 you can add crowd controller to that (silences). Mob resistances just specialise the kind of DPS that is helpful (magical/non-magical, ranged/melee).

SE are doing all they can to promote varied parties (the recent change to LB, the party attribute bonuses) however, you can't stop an MMO community from finding the path of least resistance, be it ranged-only Garuda ex or PLD tanks only for turn 5.

Rather than trying to stop human nature, my argument is that the mob resistances/weaknesses will allow SE to design fights where under-valued classes are suddenly valuable again, while allowing the game to recover some of its lost FF heritage.

Late Edit: Also, I wouldn't want to get too side-tracked on mob resistances. Other effects such as following/running away/getting defensive/hp-aggro etc are all important too.

Of course everyone will need certain ROLE. What i'm arguing is the fact we don't need certain JOB. Why i should discriminate a drg over a mnk for a content? Because one deal piercing damage and the other blunt ?
Why a smn over blm ? Because one deal unaspected damage and the other don't, so it's more situational ? With the idea of elemental weakness every blm would end useless (not unwanted) for everything resistent or immune to fire, chopping like 70% or their damage output. This of course assuming blm shouldn't be chopped of astral fire-umbral ice mechanic, which would be a shame wasting

Believe me, that can be easily balanced, so that you will not have to play just a certain class/job.
-Any class can deal piercing/blunt/slash damage. There were two types of weapon in 1.0, lets say for GLA you could use blunt or slash sort of weapon.
-Any class can use weather for their advantage, just give them abilities with additional elemental damage (like Thunder Fist or Blazing Sword or w/e).

Also don't forget that even today we still can use the cross class skills and abilities, this also adds up to the overall balance so that no class/job would be considered OP or crappy.

Having all the classes dealing all kind of elemental and damage type and making them basicly all the same with the only difference some are melee and other ranged. Exacly what we had in 1.0 and people bashed because it took away any kind of difference,made every single class bland and screamed for more differentiation.
Also, i want the point out the contraddiction in wanting more way to promote differentiation while making all jobs pretty much the same.

[Aegis]

Of course everyone will need certain ROLE. What i'm arguing is the fact we don't need certain JOB. Why i should discriminate a drg over a mnk for a content? Because one deal piercing damage and the other blunt ?
Why a smn over blm ? Because one deal unaspected damage and the other don't, so it's more situational ? With the idea of elemental weakness every blm would end useless (not unwanted) for everything resistent or immune to fire, chopping like 70% or their damage output. This of course assuming blm shouldn't be chopped of astral fire-umbral ice mechanic, which would be a shame wasting

We already discriminate among DPS classes. SMN/BLM being seen as required for Ifrit HM, BRDs being seen as required for turn 1 and 2. We also discriminate among Tank classes; almost no-one runs turn 5 with 2 WARs.

If you added mobs with fire weaknesses and physical resistances to that hypothetical example fight, they would be sought after, but they wouldn't be stacked. Not all mobs would or should have these resistances, there may only be a few here and there. The resistances also could be slight (10% or so) to make a job preferred but not essential.

They could also return the partial damage types from early Version 1: Some bladed lances would be 80% Piercing, 20% Slashing etc. This would allow a certain amount of horizontal progression as one weapon may be more useful than another in certain fights even if it is the same/slightly lower i-level.

There is a lot of middle ground between all jobs play exactly the same and are interchangeable and lolBLM.

I guess you could say those skeletons are...

*sunglasses*

lazy bones.

Have all my likes.