Monk new BIS

[Rochetm]

except in this case, the secondary stats are so much better than the little bit of extra strength melee offers that it literally is statistically stronger. here is dancing mad's calculator using my set up and then switching to melee:
http://imgur.com/33XivrU

it literally is a worse armor. i don't need a lecture on how stats work, as i've taken it into account.

Swap Fuma for Melee chest, Melee legs for Allagan and run those numbers again. Each WS does a tiny bit less damage but overall WS increases by a lot. AA goes down a little as well but not enough to make up for a 1.4% increase in WS damage.

[monkguy]

Swap Fuma for Melee chest, Melee legs for Allagan and run those numbers again. Each WS does a tiny bit less damage but overall WS increases by a lot. AA goes down a little as well but not enough to make up for a 1.4% increase in WS damage.

the autos dont just go down a little, they go down quite a bit, AA over time does way better than a little increase in WS damage; i still stand by my set, it has the optimized determination you can get without going too under on acc. dont give into the crit hype, fuma is a lot better than you give it credit for.

[Rochetm]

the autos dont just go down a little, they go down quite a bit, AA over time does way better than a little increase in WS damage; i still stand by my set, it has the optimized determination you can get without going too under on acc. dont give into the crit hype, fuma is a lot better than you give it credit for.

You think 3 AA damage is a lot? Over time doesn't make a difference. You AA at about the same rate as you WS.

[Allyrion]

I've already argued that the strength difference can never be made up.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Temple/page123

Skill speed is the worst stat for sure, but it's not as bad as strength is better. If that makes sense.
Even the person arguing for that fuma had these two stat weights:

(being Det= 0.22/Cr= 0.16/SS= 0.146 and Det= 0.223/Cr= 0.154/SS= 0.156, respectively)

Both of which fail to justify the Fuma. Note that you cannot simply swap between the two since the Melee chest provides accuracy.
Instead, you would need to rebalance your accuracy (as Rochetm said) to make a fair comparison.

A fair comparison from the link above, using the first stat weight (which puts less value on SS).
Melee Cyclas + Allagan pants = 32.504 + 37.944 = 70.448
Fuma Chest + Melee Pants = 32.98 + 32.74 = 65.72

Acurracy was left out as a stat since it is given in equal amounts in the Cyclas and Pants.
The difference between the sets is the same 4 strength you would expect.
Determination is our best secondary stat, but it is worth much less than 1 strength, it is given in smaller amounts and the other secondary stats really aren't that far behind it (since you get more of them).
Overmelding is the only way to catch up with an item level difference like that. And even that only allows for around 10 ilvls.

[Nash20]

Again...I go back to racial stats.

If the case can be made that Fuma is a totally unacceptable body piece...than the case would need to be made that anything other than a Hyur Highlander will be a sh^t monk.

I don't agree with that, as well as anyone out there that says race makes no difference.

Shoot, Allyrion you are a Keeper. You lose 3 STR to Seekers and 5 STR to Highlanders...if STR can NOT be made up...you are purposely gimping yourself?!

Because if we had say the same exact gear (me being a Seeker and you being a Keeper) but you have Melee Cyclas and I have Fuma...you have exactly 1 more STR than me with probably WAY over acc cap making it worthless and SS which you call worthless as well. I have more Det and Crit.

All I am trying to do, is advise MNKs out there that if your goal is Allagan Striking body, you should probably look at Fuma above Melee if you acc is capped.

[Allyrion]

I rolled as a BLM first and I play a few classes on this one character. So yes, I am statistically gimped compared to a Highlander or even my Seeker cousins.
I'm fine picking racial based on Aesthetics, hell I won't even argue if you picked some gear based on that as well.

Also, I didn't call SS worthless but just our worst stat. I've actually be trying to make a point that it's not even that bad. The Accuracy isn't worthless cause you can drop it in other areas. Of course I will agree it depends on which drops you get.

I'm not here to be elitest or judge someone's aesthetic choice. I won't even disagree that the fuma is a bad stop gap you said, Nash. In fact, it's a great one considering the cost of the Melee chest.
I myself have picked up the Fuma hands and settled with it for now. I'm only ilvl 88 and moved my myth spending on to my other jobs.

None of that is the argument though.

except in this case, the secondary stats are so much better than the little bit of extra strength melee offers that it literally is statistically stronger. here is dancing mad's calculator using my set up and then switching to melee:
http://imgur.com/33XivrU

it literally is a worse armor. i don't need a lecture on how stats work, as i've taken it into account.

Monkguy is talking straight math and putting the Melee chest lower than the Fuma chest.
He is saying that the 4 strength is not better than the secondary stats you get from the fuma.
That's what I'm arguing against. That shuffling stats around will never make that difference.

I'm not arguing that 4 strength is that much to cry over, just that it's worth more than you can get from trying to optimize your secondary stats.
If you're arguing that myth might be spent elsewhere or that Fuma functions well since you're going into T5, like you were. That's fine.
If you're arguing that the Fuma is a statistically stronger piece than the Melee, like monkguy was. That's different and I would disagree.

[Nash20]

Ah, I understand now.

Must've misread the argument.

Being said...I have a static that hopefully will down T5 within the month, so...I am more than satisfied with the Fuma over the Melee and spending Myth elsewhere.

With that...if you don't think you can ever down T5 or don't have any interest in Coil, Melee Cyclas is a worthwhile piece...but probably the LAST piece I would purchase with Fuma being readily available.

[ziddyt]

snip

There's absolutely no reason for you to be well over accuracy cap just because you have the Cyclas. That's kind of the point, it lets you offload accuracy elsewhere for better gains. There's no point in comparing piece vs piece, your gearset is what matters. And a Pre-T5 Gearset with the Cyclas will be better than a gearset with the Fuma.
I mean, if you're going to argue using a worse gearset, why bother upgrading your gear at all?

[Nash20]

Not sure if you are just not reading my posts right. But I am not saying that the Fuma is BiS...I am saying that if you have sufficient accuracy that the Fuma is an alternative.

Selective reading I suppose.

[Butcherb0y]

So the lesson learn is that weapon dmg + str eats everything.