BLM, Extreme Primals, and Surecast "buff" request

[T0rin]

As a SMN, I wouldn't be worried about BLM catching my ST DPS in a stand-up fight, or a movement heavy fight like Titan Ex. This change to surecast would be good, but unless the non-traited version allowed for movement while casting, it would be more or less worthless to everyone but THM/BLM, which is kind of pointless for a cross-class ability.

If the traited version allowed for significantly more casts to go through during the duration of the spell (i.e. 8 -> 16 or 6 -> 12), that should be enough benefit to make it useful for everyone, but more useful for THM/BLM. But if the un-traited version didn't allow for movement, it would be as useless as a cross-class skill as it is now.

[Kenji1134]

If the traited version allowed for significantly more casts to go through during the duration of the spell (i.e. 8 -> 16 or 6 -> 12), that should be enough benefit to make it useful for everyone, but more useful for THM/BLM. But if the un-traited version didn't allow for movement, it would be as useless as a cross-class skill as it is now.

That's the idea. The untraited version would be like it is now, though it would last for 2-3 quick spells instead of just 1. But for the most part it would remain a situational cross-class ability that only prevent spell interruption.
But for BLM, it would enable them to maintain some dps during short movement phases, so a skilled player who can manage the extra CD can maintain their dps while dodging mechanics.

Its meant to be a buff to help what is currently BLM's weakest area, without significantly affecting any other classes, as to help maintain the "dps balance".

[SerDakota]

I agree with this I dont have a blm but a few friends who are and have actually Been kicked from primals on blm for this reason

[T0rin]

That's the idea. The untraited version would be like it is now, though it would last for 2-3 quick spells instead of just 1. But for the most part it would remain a situational cross-class ability that only prevent spell interruption.
But for BLM, it would enable them to maintain some dps during short movement phases, so a skilled player who can manage the extra CD can maintain their dps while dodging mechanics.

Its meant to be a buff to help what is currently BLM's weakest area, without significantly affecting any other classes, as to help maintain the "dps balance".

Except by situational, you literally mean 'never used out of PvP, and only then very infrequently'.

Still, as a cross-class skill, if you are going to make Surecast worth using, it should be worth using for everyone who has access to it, not just THM/BLM. It should be better for THM/BLM, but it should not be useless unless you are THM/BLM. Otherwise, why is it a cross-class skill at all?

As is, you're advocating for making Surecast like Hawk's Eye. Great if you are ARC/BRD, but completely shit for everyone else.

[Kenji1134]

Sadly most cross-class skills are kinda useless, and will likely remain so.
Besides, remember what happened to Bards in 2.1, the biggest "notified" change that they received was to have 2 of their cross-class skills nerfed by half. Based on that, it seems that SE does not want cross-class skills to be particularly potent, just a little add-on to make things easier... Hell be happy Swiftcast has not magically been nerfed yet. >.>

With that in mind, yes, this is meant to be an extremely situational and halfway useless skill to anyone but BLM. This way it has a chance of actually happening, because it will not affect game balance. It will not magically strengthen any other class in a significant way, it is simple a precision change to address a precise problem with a precise class... Hopefully something like this can be implemented as is bring a controlled, situational buff, with no drawbacks from a design standpoint.

[T0rin]

It'd probably be better if it was removed as a cross class skill, buffed, and replaced as a cross class skill by something else.

Those BRD cross class skills are still useful though. Surecast never has been.

Given BLM's position in the ST DPS rankings, they need something along these lines. But you have to wonder.. why does BLM have so few instant cast spells, if they were meant to be good DPS in movement heavy fights? Maybe they weren't mean to be?

Either way, I've parsed more than my fair share of Extreme Primals, and I haven't seen BLM lagging too terribly behind some other DPS compared to most end-game content. They are simply not that good of a ST DPS class, only marginally better than BRD. Given their AoE potential, I'm sure that is why. If anything, there needs to be more content along the lines of Turn 4, as opposed to every difficult encounter being a mostly single target affair.

[Kenji1134]

IDK, on a few interviews, Yoshi-P plainly stated the BLMs should be near the top of the dps rankings simply because that is all they offer.
SMN has a good bit of utility, E4E, swiftcast-in-combat-rez... Plus being a dot/pet class, having to move or completely disconnect does not mean that your dps drops to zero, you still have things ticking and your pet beating on the target.

BLM has aoe sleep, which is only used on trash. It has strong aoe, in bursts depending on if swiftcast and convert are up, and just strong burst damage maybe 60-66% of the time (while in the fire cycle). Dont get me wrong, BLM has a lot of strengths and uses, but suddenly having almost every new "endgame" fight require repeated movement has REALLY brought out BLM's major weakness.

In a way, Titan and Ifrit are the BLM equivalents of Garuda for melee. There are repeated phases where you simply cannot fight Garuda and Suparna due to the chance of being one-shot by Wicked Wheel, its an indirect melee disconnect mechanic.
Here we have fights with phases where you cant stand still, this is an indirect hard-caster disconnect mechanic.

[JetBrooks]

I dunno, I used to think Titan HM was the hardest thing ever, and now I think I can do it with my eyes closed. Maybe we still just have to find a good groove for these fights.

If we keep getting more and more abilities to make things easier and easier, there will be little satisfaction to beating anything.

I kinda think BLM would be too easy with stuff like this. I now probably play BLM more than DRG (my main job) just because the class is already so easy to play (in most instances).

[T0rin]

The Wicked Wheel interaction with melee is only a minor disconnect. It is pretty plainly televised, comes in a specific order after specific skills, so there is little reason in not avoiding it, and little reason in staying out of combat for a protracted duration.

Titan and Ifrit are more or less the same.. the mechanics that force you to move are very scripted, come at very reliable intervals. Granted, a Line or Eruption coming out [on top of you] pretty much forces you to move, but a vast majority of these fights are still plenty of stand-up DPS time.

I don't think BLM would be OP if they could cast on the move 50% of the time. I think Surecast should be made useful, and this could be a good way to do it. But if you're going to make it only useful for BLM/THM, at least do every other class that has access to it the favor of removing it as a cross-class skill and replacing it with something remotely worthwhile. I don't think SMN should get anything to improve their DPS, and this could be a very minor DPS boost to us on a few fights. Though there really isn't much that doesn't boost DPS and is still useful utility in the THM skillset that we don't already have.

[Aresaka]

As soon as i dodge in Titan EX im casting another spell, and if i take .5 seconds too long, when people move back out they might get smacked by a plume out of place simply because i need that time to get a cast off. Dont get me wrong, i love playing as a blm, but being stuck on a fight im well qualified to finish and barely die in except to others screw-ups simply because im "most likely to fall behind on dps" isnt right. I've found a good balance on timing my spells but its also getting other people killed if im not completely precise. It just feels like im being carried because i cant do any damage and i really dont like it.