Overflowing stupidity

[Ricon]

The ability to see how much items are listed for is killing crafting. In FFXI you bid based on past sells, here every idiot undercuts every item that has any volume of sales until they are losing money on each synth. I ask why?

[Zigkid3]

The ability for everyone to see how much items are listed for isn't "killing crafting", it's just allowing people to find what markets are or aren't profitable. If a market is profitable, people will continue to join to have a slice of the pie, eventually though enough people will join that market until profits are driven to 0 and it is no longer profitable, this is market efficiency. If a market is unprofitable, then people will leave that market until profits go back up to 0.

If you're trying to craft for an unprofitable market then it's that person who has overflowing stupidity, especially since the marketboard makes it easy for them to check the current market.

If you aren't making profit in one market, move to another. Ideally, things will have narrow profit margins.

Blind bidding is bad because it doesn't allow people to see what the actual market looks like, and no one can make proper decisions and it would hurt market efficiency and cause large price gaps.

A lot of these threads seem to be made by people who feel they are entitled to large profit margins.

[Highlanderx]

If you're trying to craft for an unprofitable market then it's that person who has overflowing stupidity, especially since the marketboard makes it easy for them to check the current market.
If you aren't making profit in one market, move to another. Ideally, things will have narrow profit margins.
Blind bidding is bad because it doesn't allow people to see what the actual market looks like, and no one can make proper decisions and it would hurt market efficiency and cause large price gaps.

A lot of these threads seem to be made by people who feel they are entitled to large profit margins.

Checking market is easy. But

For finished products, People undercut far too quickly and too much, regardless of what the market for the item at the time of posting. Within an hour or 2, you find your item going from profitable to worthless. To make any profit off them, they require constant micromanaging of prices, plus a stockpile cash to buy all the stupidly price items below yours.

Its the same with Mats, but they move more quickly, or people just buy and re-list them more often.

I have read quite a few most from under-cutters on other forums, they seem to come mostly in 3 types, the Jerks(who just want to tank the market, make people lose money and read about them complaining about it) , the Stupid (who think the default price listed is the suggested market price and not the NPC buy-back price) and people in a Hurry(they just want to move the item, with no care of what they get back, even if they can dump it at a vender for more)

A market where most times you get more money by pulling the item and selling it to an NPC, is not healthy.

Though I don't see going to blind bidding as an improvement.

Maybe limit the ability reprice/relist to once a day and raise the default price to what a NPC would sell the NQ version for.

[Kyana]

For finished products, People undercut far too quickly and too much, regardless of what the market for the item at the time of posting. Within an hour or 2, you find your item going from profitable to worthless.

That's true.
I always check which items are low in stock and sell for a good price, craft some (never do more than 3-5) and put them up.
Let's say the last 20 items sold for ~10k and there are none in stock. I put mine on for 10-12k. The next time I check, someone sells 20 pieces of same item for 6k...

Undercutting is ok to a certain degree, but why people sell so far under the normal price is beyond me.

Don't even get me started on finished products which are sold for less than the shards required to craft them.

A lot of these threads seem to be made by people who feel they are entitled to large profit margins.

Well, if I craft something to sell it, I try to get as much profit as I can.
Why else should I spend the materials I farm for anything I don't need myself.

[Ricon]

A blind market stops a market board with 100 items all 1 Gil lower than the next until the real value of an item is double the going rate. I don't feel we should have huge margins but in reality there maybe 10 items worth anything since all gear is replaced instantly.

This shouldn't have been a topic about the market as much as I should have said why are crafters so greedy they undercut until they lose money.

[Nova_Dresden]

A blind market stops a market board with 100 items all 1 Gil lower than the next until the real value of an item is double the going rate. I don't feel we should have huge margins but in reality there maybe 10 items worth anything since all gear is replaced instantly.

This shouldn't have been a topic about the market as much as I should have said why are crafters so greedy they undercut until they lose money.

A blind market encourages unfair or unethical selling/buying in order to artificially inflate the price of an item. An item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it and what someone else is willing to sell it for. If someone else is willing to sell a crafted item for 5% over cost of production then you have no right to complain you can't sell it for triple the cost of production.

[JeniLinsky]

FFXI's economy was so bad, nearly everyone engaged in gil buying at some point. Having listed prices allows undercutting, which has so far kept prices reasonable, removing the gil buying impetus for most.

[Kaonis]

FFXI's economy was so bad, nearly everyone engaged in gil buying at some point. Having listed prices allows undercutting, which has so far kept prices reasonable, removing the gil buying impetus for most.

I knew far more people who didn't buy gil and would qork to out camp gil sellers at NM camps then those who bought gil. I question this "nearly everyone" statement and demand some real numbers instead of hearsay.


And XI's economy was bad due to the fact that there was only a handful of crafters skilled enough to make the things people wanted, let alone people who would spend the time to do it, or have the resources to do it.

XIV has the complete opposite issue where resources and plentiful and there is probably a good 20X the amount of skilled crafters than XI ever saw. The undercutting is a serious issue because people will drop prices so low that for a crafter it's not worthwhile to make anything. I've seen so many markets ruined due to the reckless undercutting, where people will drop the price on something by a solid 50-75% and flood the market killing it for everyone else to net a profit worth our time.

[peaches]

I understand the pain. Any time I see a price that is stable, if I make even two of that item to sell the price drops by about half in the course of a full day. I personally don't want to have to micromanage my items on the market every hour. I don't even undercut, I just match the price of the lowest item for jewelry or gear. Its why I've given up trying to make money by selling items like I did near the start of the game.

Its just too much work, and the price ends up less than the value of even just the cost of shards often, let alone the materials to make them as well as any profit margin.

[Darkwerk]

Currently BOTs disadvantage every legitimate player to a very large degree. Players who buy their gil also place a large disadvantage in addition to the BOT's.

Trying to act like the markets are working anything like a healthy real world market is so disingenuous as to give the appearance of defending RMT on the DL.

Drastic actions need to be taken, I assert that trying to treat a game world market as a IRL modern market is a fallacy.

Removing listing prices and history of sales would be more akin to a actual auction IMO.