Thread: How are warriors after 2.1?

I really have the feeling both classes are even, but differently.

When building enmity on multiple targets, it seems that Flash and Overpower are even. However, War can up Overpower's threat generation with Berserk or Unchained. This is why it gives the impression Warrior have easier time tanking multiple targets (at first sight).
However, Paladin still generates enough enmity to tank a pack, can spam flash for a longer time, and have better cooldowns to handle the burst damage multiple targets will do on a tank.
Paladins have less aggro, but are more defensive on multiple targets... so the best way to play would be to let paladin tank multiple targets, instead of ripping hate off them with warrior.

When building enmity on a single target, it's the opposite. Paladins use the Rage of Halone combo most of the time, and generate enmity on every combo, while warriors have to go through 2 or 3 combos, but only one of these generates good enmity, so they make less enmity. It's gives the impression that Paladin is a better tank on single target (at first sight).
However, Warrior still generates enough enmity to tank single target, and have Inner Beast available more frequently to mitigate most (if not all) huge damage spikes, and can keep Storm's Path up at all times to reduce aoe damage on the whole raid... so the best way would be to let warrior tank single targets, instead of ripping hate off them with paladin.


So, when a class can easily make lots of aggro on a target type, they cannot mitigate as much as the other class would have.
It doesn't makes a significant difference during fights, but it can still ease some fights.

Originally Posted by Maelwys

However if the PLD is in Sword Oath, the WAR will be at another (slight) disadvantage.

And if the WAR wasn't in defiance... How is sword oath even in your thought process when we're talking about threat gen. Threat gen = tanking = use shield/defiance.

Originally Posted by Zoomie

And if the WAR wasn't in defiance... How is sword oath even in your thought process when we're talking about threat gen. Threat gen = tanking = use shield/defiance.

Because with the patch 2.1, the enmity buff that was applied to Shield Oath was ALSO applied to Sword Oath.

I realise Sword Oath wasn't flagged as such in the patch notes, but this increase has been noticed and demonstrated pretty thoroughly by myself and others.

Prior to the patch, a PLD using the RoH rotation in Sword Oath generated slightly more threat than the same PLD in Shield Oath, and this is STILL the case after the patch. The only difference is with Flash - because Flash has no damage component, Shield Oath is better for generating AoE threat.

I actually had a genuine encounter where this issue cropped up on Monday when clearing Turn 4 - the other PLD was ripping threat off me on the Phase 3 Dreadnaught, despite being slightly lesser-geared and using exactly the same rotation. The difference? I was MTing in Shield Oath, he was DDing in Sword Oath.

The same threat multiplier does NOT appear to be in effect (or at least not to the same degree!) when no Stance buff is active, which would be the case whenever a WAR disables Defiance.

A War naturally generates higher ST damage on a target than a PLD does, but this is primarily due to the Storm's Eye debuff (which WARS inflict, but which also affects PLD's attack damage). If both tanks are focussing on the same target, it's pretty even with equal-gearing.

Originally Posted by Maelwys

SNIP

Again I fail to see the relevance of any of this. You were addressing WAR/PLD threat gen and started talking about sword oath. If either tank is competing for aggro then sword oath is completely off the table....

Second if a PLD is dpsing it seems moronic to spam ROH while in sword given the changes. Its the same as a WAR not in defiance spamming BB. Its just not smart. Use as many RoH as you can but choosing to continue to do so at the risk of aggro is just silly.

Yes, WAR has been given much advantage from patch 2.1, although still far from what we have back in 1.0. WAR could even compete in enmity building over PLD on single target, not to mention that WAR already great for crowd control since beginning.

But... PLD can still quite easily steal back enmity from WAR for single target, and this is where Sword Oath comes into play. I know this is weird especially since no mentions of enmity build on the skill description, but I've been doing this quite alot lately. Just switch to Sword Oath, do couple of enmity combo, then switch Shield Oath back on. This could guarantee that a WAR couldn't steal back enmity from PLD. I've tested this alot when doing Main story's duty roulette, and it works like a charm. lol

Been playing between PLD & WAR, and WAR still great especially for dungeons. Single execute of Overpower alone already have amazing enmity build while comparing with PLD that needs at least Flash & Rage of Halone combo which I think still a bit weaker. One of best way to test this is if there's a MNK in party that knows how to play his/her job. MNK can easily rip off enmity from tank, and this is where WAR still have a slight advantage over PLD for maintaining AOE enmity. Throw in another enmity combo from WAR and most of the time will guarantee enmity in check till mob's demise, while PLD's enmity combo still has chances having enmity stolen by a MNK.

To sum it up: WAR's great for crowd control, but could still lose enmity battle over single target (like bosses) with PLD. PLD's always great for single target enmity check like bosses, but the AOE enmity combo still do quite good albeit not as strong as WAR's.